Question about ASL sign GOVERNMENT

Fri Nov 21 14:47:21 UTC 2008

Try this one.  Your comments make a lot of sense, it's a matter of articulation.  All of our tries will get close to the same result.  I like something that is crisp and clear.

  I think you'd need an a close knuckle at the side of that arrow and then an open one.  This works for me as one is following the tip of the index finger through three movements.  Neat.

  Charles

Natasha Escalada-Westland <shash90 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
      .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  font-size: 10pt;  font-family:Verdana  }    So then perhaps this movement symbol is more correct?

  It is used in signs with similar movements such as:

but with a single movement...

Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.
www.westlandasl.com

> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:06:02 -0800
> From: chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: [sw-l] Question about ASL sign GOVERNMENT
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> 
> The wrist rotation starts from the top of the hand and
> goes down and around. I can understand you seeing it
> going up and forward but the direction of the arrow is
> still around the outside of the circle not the inside
> of the circle. 
> 
> If you look at movement as a clock face, you are going
> clockwise around the circle, not counter-clockwise, so
> you could mark as I to the center, but not to the
> left.
> 
> There are actually two knuckle bends, one to start,
> and one at the end, so the writing with both hands
> shown is probably clearer, just not as compact. 
> 
> Charles
> --- Natasha Escalada-Westland <shash90 at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for the feedback and discussion! I
> > understand all the explanations except the wrist
> > rotation. To me, the symbol that Adam used and
> > Charles discussed looks as if the wrist rotates down
> > and back, yet when I sign to myself, the movement
> > seems up and forward. Do I misunderstand movement
> > symbol then?Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH),
> > Macromedia Cert.www.westlandasl.com 
> > 
> > From: icemandeaf at gmail.comTo:
> > sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.eduSubject: Re: [sw-l]
> > Question about ASL sign GOVERNMENTDate: Thu, 20 Nov
> > 2008 13:01:47 -0800CC: shash90 at hotmail.com
> > If I were to write it as I sign it, which is a lot
> > like how I can see Natasha is writing it, I would
> > come up with this for more detailed use:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > But I would simplify it even more as this is really
> > more information then is needed. So something like
> > this:
> > 
> > 
> > Although Charles did say that the palm should all be
> > white as it is in ASLpro and wouldn't disagree with
> > it if it is written that way because I have seen
> > people sign it that way, I don't normally end up
> > that way when I sign it. So half black and white or
> > white is fine. Up to the writer. ;-)
> > 
> > The black dot means the knuckle bends in, but the
> > open dot means the knuckles bend out, so the final
> > movement is bending open. 
> > 
> > Charles is right that the wrist circle is backwards
> > as you have it where the wrist circles up, not down
> > as with the sign.
> > 
> > I personally don't use the single touch because it
> > is clear that the finger is touching the head. Also,
> > the touch symbol does not go between the finger and
> > the head, but near if you want it there. 
> > 
> > Other than that, my simplified writing (which is
> > what I would normally use in most cases) match very
> > closely to you writing. Just a few confusions about
> > a couple of the symbols, but not bad. :-)
> > 
> > If you want more help, just let us know. Always
> > willing to give feedback on writing. :-)
> > 
> > Adam
> > On Nov 20, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Charles Butler wrote:
> > 
> > If one knows the sign, this is quite compact and
> > contains all the information necessary to read
> > outside to inside to end at the point of contact. I
> > checked on
> > 
> > http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi
> > 
> > to get a video of the sign (they only have Governor)
> > but that is Govern + person.
> > 
> > Notes on writing.
> > 
> > Reading from the inside out. 
> > 
> > 1) Sign ends at point of contact (the palm facing
> > usually written). At that point, the hand is palm
> > facing the reader, the index finger as written is
> > palm down, which is the point of initial movement
> > not the ending movement. 
> > 
> > 2) The knuckle bend is shown correctly.
> > 
> > 3) The wrist movement is backward. If one follows
> > the circle, one's index finger would be going toward
> > the center which is the opposite of the movement if
> > one is signing one's own hand. As it is a complete
> > circular movement, the type of movement is correct,
> > just the rotation of the arrow needs to be mirrored.
> > 
> > 
> > So, to fix the writing:
> > 
> > 1) Reverse the wrist circle (imagine the index
> > finger circling away from you, which is out from the
> > center in writing). 
> > 
> > 2) Change the palm facing on the index finger to
> > palm toward the reader (all white, not half and
> > half). 
> > 
> > 3) Leave the knuckle bend where it is. The whole
> > writing is compact and actually quite elegant.
> > 
> > Charles Butler
> > 
> > 
> > Valerie Sutton <signwriting at mac.com> wrote:
> > SignWriting ListNovember 20, 2008Hello SW List!This
> > morning Natasha sent the SW List an email, and I am
> > not sure why, but the message came through only
> > through the Digest version of the SW List, but not
> > into my email box...so just in case, I am re-posting
> > Natasha's question to the List to be sure you all
> > got it....I hope the SignWriting teachers on the
> > List will answer Natasha's question! Thank you
> > Natasha for this question! Val ;-)PS. I am enjoying
> > my visit with my sister...thank you, Adam, for
> > wishing us a happy Thanksgiving and I want to wish a
> > happy Thanksgiving to you too, and to all who
> > celebrate the holiday here in the US...Actually
> > Thanksgiving Day is a week from today, but my sister
> > came early because she cannot be here on the real
> > Thanksgiving Day...so we are celebrating
> > early...smile ;-)-----------------> From: "Natasha
> > Escalada-Westland" > Date: November 20, 2008 5:19:42
> > AM PST> To: "SignWriting Listserve" > Subject:
> > [sw-l] ASL sign for government> Reply-To:
> > "SignWriting List" >>> Hi All,>> I just wanted some
> > feedback on this version I wrote of the ASL sign >
> > for "government".> Thanks!>>>> Natasha
> > Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.>
> >
> www.westlandasl.com>____________________________________________SW-L
> > SignWriting ListPost
> > MessageSW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.eduList Archives
> > and
> > Helphttp://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/Change
> > Email
> >
> Settingshttp://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l____________________________________________SW-L
> > SignWriting ListPost
> > MessageSW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.eduList Archives
> > and
> > Helphttp://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/Change
> > Email
> Settingshttp://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l>
> 
> > 
> > 
> > ____________________________________________
> > 
> > SW-L SignWriting List
> > 
> > Post Message
> > SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> > 
> > List Archives and Help
> > http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
> > 
> > Change Email Settings
> >
> http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l

____________________________________________

SW-L SignWriting List

Post Message
SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu

List Archives and Help
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/

Change Email Settings
http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20081121/c34cd5cb/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: government.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 19629 bytes
Desc: 2547614158-government.pdf
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20081121/c34cd5cb/attachment.pdf>
-------------- next part --------------

____________________________________________

SW-L SignWriting List

Post Message
SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu

List Archives and Help
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/

Change Email Settings
http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l