Nominal vs Cardinal numbers in ASL

Mon Feb 9 00:13:55 UTC 2009

Hmm, now that you mention it, they did have both. I guess that I was  
so focused on learning the symbols that I didn't remember that there  
were Arabic numerals as well. Ha!

Adam

On Feb 8, 2009, at 3:19 PM, SignWriting wrote:

> SignWriting List
> February 8, 2009
>
> Actually i don't think we ever did a book that only had ASL  
> numbers...we always coupled it with the Arabic number on the other  
> side of the same page...or just used Arabic numbers alone...
>
> For example, if you download the Goldilocks books, you will see what  
> i mean...the ASL number is on one side, and the Arabic number is on  
> the other side of the same page...
>
> Goldilocks
> http://www.SignWriting.org/library/children/Goldilocks.html
>
> If you liked it once, Adam, and beginning readers are downloading  
> these books, maybe it can't hurt to leave the books as they are? I  
> have to update them for other reasons anyway, but I would like to  
> leave the page numbers in both languages in  these books for  
> historic reasons if nothing more...it has brought up interesting  
> discussions ;-)
>
> Val ;-)
>
> ---------
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Adam Frost wrote:
>
>> Well, as Val had mentioned before, books written in SignWriting  
>> aren't very commonplace, so this is all a test and see sort of  
>> thing. When I was first learning SignWriting, I liked that the page  
>> numbers were in SignWriting and not with Arabic numerals. However,  
>> now that I have gotten skilled with SignWriting and since it was  
>> first mentioned a short time ago, I am leaning more to the idea  
>> that page numbers might be better with Arabic numerals. I didn't  
>> mention anything before because it wasn't what was asked. ;-) But  
>> this is a really good question about how numbering pages in  
>> SignWritten books should go. I am curious how others feel. :-)
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Natasha Escalada-Westland wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe this has been brought up before regarding page numbers, but  
>>> I am curious, why can't the Arabic numerals be used?  Written  
>>> English (and many other written languages) numbers pages using 1,  
>>> 2, 3 and so forth rather than one, two, three or uno, dos, tres.   
>>> I'm wondering what the consensus is with regard to SignWriting?
>>>
>>> Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.
>>> www.westlandasl.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > From: sutton at signwriting.org
>>> > To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>> > Subject: Re: [sw-l] Nominal vs Cardinal numbers in ASL
>>> > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:43:28 -0800
>>> >
>>> > SignWriting List
>>> > February 8, 2009
>>> >
>>> > Thank you, Adam, for this really good explanation of the  
>>> problem...and
>>> > for your vote for nominal. That has always been my feeling too...
>>> >
>>> > However, around four months ago I had a long discussion with  
>>> another
>>> > native ASL signer about this and that person voted for the
>>> > cardinal...so if you count my vote, then we have one cardinal  
>>> and two
>>> > nominal, but i am not native or Deaf...so we need more opinions,  
>>> or
>>> > maybe test readers and ask them to search for pages in the book  
>>> only
>>> > using ASL numbers to see which works best for them finding the  
>>> pages
>>> > fast...
>>> >
>>> > Any others have opinions on nominal or cardinal page numbers in  
>>> ASL?
>>> >
>>> > Val ;-)
>>> >
>>> > -----------
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Feb 8, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Adam Frost wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > A very fine line here because page numbers are counted pages  
>>> which
>>> > > number the page with a label. They are often used as both
>>> > > interchangeably mostly because English doesn't distinguish  
>>> between
>>> > > both and most people don't know the difference. When thinking  
>>> about
>>> > > how I usually refer to pages, I usually use the cardinal form  
>>> as I
>>> > > am basically saying "turn 5 pages from the beginning" verses  
>>> "turn
>>> > > to page 5" which would use the nominal form. However, I think  
>>> that
>>> > > we are actually labeling the page as "Page 5" so I think that in
>>> > > this case it should be nominals that are used. I hope that makes
>>> > > sense. Anyway, that is my 2 cents worth. (Hmm... would that 2 be
>>> > > cardinal or nominal? Ha!) ;-)
>>> > >
>>> > > Adam
>>> > >
>>> > > On Feb 8, 2009, at 11:40 AM, SignWriting wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> SignWriting List
>>> > >> February 8, 2009
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Hi SW Listers!
>>> > >> I need your advice. Most ASL numbers are the same whether  
>>> they are
>>> > >> nominal or cardinal, but there are five that are  
>>> different....the
>>> > >> first five numbers are cardinal inside a sentence, but  
>>> nominal when
>>> > >> telling people your phone number, your apartment number etc...I
>>> > >> believe that is correct anyway ;-))
>>> > >>
>>> > >> In other words, the cardinal is part of meaning in a  
>>> sentence, but
>>> > >> the nominal is like a "label"...like stating your Social  
>>> Security
>>> > >> Number (a long number that represents a person in the  
>>> US)...if it
>>> > >> has a lot of "ones"...like 111-897-1102...or something like
>>> > >> that...I don't believe the palm turns towards the chest when
>>> > >> stating your Social Security Number, does it?
>>> > >>
>>> > >> So when reading tiny tiny page numbers at the bottom of pages  
>>> in a
>>> > >> 500 page SignWriting book, should the page numbers be nominal  
>>> or
>>> > >> cardinal? I have always felt that the page numbers were like
>>> > >> "labels" for finding a page quickly...but others have disagreed
>>> > >> with me...meanwhile most people do not have a lot of experience
>>> > >> reading large books in SignWriting yet, including myself, so  
>>> we all
>>> > >> are guessing a bit... It may really be a matter of all of us
>>> > >> getting used to this, and figuring out, by testing readers,  
>>> who can
>>> > >> find page 1 faster...when it is nominal or cardinal? smile...
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I am updating our old Goldilocks documents with the symbols  
>>> of the
>>> > >> ISWA and while I am doing that update anyway, I wondered  
>>> about the
>>> > >> page numbers...They were nominal in the old documents.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Should page numbers be nominal or cardinal? Please see  
>>> attached...
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> <Nominal-Cardinal.png>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
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>>
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