Kate's question about reading sequence...

Sun Feb 7 18:39:28 UTC 2010

Because of the encoding of SignWriting the actual 2D location can be ascertained as each glyph (handshape, contact, movement) is placed on a 2D grid, so that at least for a sign which has a single contact or a single movement, much of the information can be charted mathematically, as well as visually.

________________________________
From: SignWriting <signwriting at mac.com>
To: SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 11:23:09 AM
Subject: Re: [sw-l] Kate's question about reading sequence...

SignWriting List
February 7, 2010

Yes exactly...Charles is referring to the detailed SignSpelling Sequences that use special Location Markers and other details that we do not actually write with, on an everyday basis. Those special detailed Location Markers are at the end of the ISWA, in Group 30, and are used for research projects such as SignTyp, at the University of Connecticut (http://www.ldc.upenn.edu/signtyp/), that need to show detailed location for linguistic study purposes. In everyday writing, in SignWriting, the location can be seen by the visual relationship between symbols, so without any special symbols, we can see that the hand is "under the left shoulder" or "near the right hip" by just placing the hand symbol under the Shoulder LIne on the left side, or near the Hip Line on the right side...so Location is written in everyday SignWriting but it is written without any special location symbols...

The detailed Location Markers are located in Group 30 of the ISWA and are used in detailed SignSpelling Sequences that help us sort dictionaries by Sign-Symbols in a more detailed way:

On Feb 7, 2010, at 7:55 AM, Charles Butler wrote:

> I know with the SignTyp program we will need to do very thorough analysis of both contact and movement and use the manikin symbol (giving signing space and actual contact information) much more thoroughly.  Perhaps this can contribute to the avatar projects.
> 
> Charles
> 
> 
> From: Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>
> To: SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:09:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] Kate's question about reading sequence...
> 
> SignWriting List
> February 7, 2010
> 
> Very interesting message, Jonathan - thank you for this input - and the Frames feature in SignWriter Studio is interesting...I never realized that compound signs were a problem...there are some compound signs that are now written as one sign with linking movement arrows between the two compounds...like daughter, which is really the combination of GIRL and BABY but became one sign:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 6, 2010, at 7:26 PM, Jonathan wrote:
> 
> > Hi Kate,
> >    I am the programmer of SignWriter Studio a SignWriting program which is currently in Beta. I had contemplated extending my program to export an avatar script and came to the conclusion that there exists the following challenges to use SignWriting to control an Avatar.
> >     • SignWriting was created for people to read and therefore does not include information in the script explicitly as to what symbol contacts what other symbol.  What symbol is a right or left hand, which one starts the movement and which ends the movement.  SignWriter Studio records whether the symbol was written as a right hand or a left hand making avatar analysis much easier and taking some of the guess work out.
> >     • For compound signs, there is no easy way for a program to tell each sign apart to do them one after another because they are all written in the same signbox space.  I have addressed this problem in SignWriter Studio with Frames.  Frames are a list of signbox elements each one with a sign of the compound sign, thus separating the signs so that programs can better analyze each individual sign and not be as confused as to which right hand goes with which movement and position symbols.
> >     • More timing information is needed to make an Avatar move smoothly.
> > I feel SignWriting is the right place to start for writing gestures for an avatar but more symbol order, linking  and timing information would be required to make an avatar move correctly.  What Val explained to you should be a good starting point for you to read and understand SignWriting so that you can extend the symbols with the additional information you will require to make your avatar work.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > On 06/02/2010 6:13 PM, Kate Mc Nulty wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Val
> >>
> >> I'm currently working on a project thats converts sign language that is written in SignWriting to sign language gestures using an avatar.
> >> I am using the SWML as input to my system.
> >> My question is that in a case whereby a sign is composed of multiple hand symbols, contact and movement symbols, How do I determine which hand symbols are signed first and what follows thereafter..
> >> I've attached 3 examples of the above mentioned problem
> >>
> >> Also, in a sign that contains touch and movement symbol..
> >> How can I determine whether touch and move..or move and touch
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Kate
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________
> >>
> >> SW-L SignWriting List
> >>
> >> Post Message
> >> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >>
> >> List Archives and Help
> >> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
> >>
> >> Change Email Settings
> >> http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
> >
> >
> > --Jonathan Duncan
> > email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca
> >          joyoduncan at gmail.com
> > Cel: 9784-9775
> > Tel: 213-5285
> > Skype: yojoduncan
> > cobanma.ibs-cobanma.com
> > SignWriter Studio
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________
> >
> > SW-L SignWriting List
> >
> > Post Message
> > SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >
> > List Archives and Help
> > http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
> >
> > Change Email Settings
> > http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________
> 
> SW-L SignWriting List
> 
> Post Message
> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> 
> List Archives and Help
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
> 
> Change Email Settings
> http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20100207/49390c51/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------

____________________________________________

SW-L SignWriting List

Post Message
SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu

List Archives and Help
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/

Change Email Settings
http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l