question for the way to express 'made'

Thu Jan 14 00:39:36 UTC 2010

I don't know how similar I can make it to the writing that Lourdes  
wrote as I don't feel that it is an equivalent translation to the  
text. I can, however, make it so that it is still relatively simple  
and involves little face impression so that you have a good ASL  
translation without being too much for your programing. Look for it in  
a little while. ;-)

Adam

On Jan 13, 2010, at 2:56 PM, Gan Lu wrote:

> Hello, Adam and others;
>
>   Sorry for keeping silent these days, as I have been keeping  
> working on the system development. I'm currently working on the hand  
> movement classification, where the movements can be classified into  
> either linear or non-linear category. Also, it can then be further  
> identified into eight directions in its plane, the floor or wall  
> plane. I'm also trying to look at some other percific characters of  
> a movement in a more deep way, therefore to generalise the algorithm  
> to cover all possible hand gesutres movements.
>
>  The algorithm will soon be developed, I suppose. And it will be  
> followed by some testings, which will based on that passage we  
> mentioned, Frosty the snow man.
>
>  As we discussed before, the reason we prefere this particular  
> passage is it is relatively simple and involves less face  
> impression. So, Adam, if you would be able to creat a very similar  
> ASL version of current passage that will be really appreciated.   
> Because our system currently under construction is based on the  
> passage posted online, and it is a naive system at this stage after  
> all, which may be hardly to cope with too much changes. But of  
> course, I understand the word 'made' will be changed somehow.
>
>
> So we look forward to your native ASL version of Frosty, Adam. And  
> thank you very much for your effort.
>
> Gan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>> "Valerie Sutton" <sutton at signwriting.org> >>>
> SignWriting List
> January 11, 2010
>
> Hello Adam!
> Welcome home from Jamaica. I am so looking forward to learning more
> about your trip, and especially the time you spent at the Caribbean
> Christian Centre for the Deaf in Knockpatrick. No rush, but in time,
> we want to hear all about it...
>
> Thank you for this message about the Frosty document, and your
> description of what may have been the reasons for some of the writing
> in the old 1999 document...those reasons sound accurate to me. I
> admire Lourdes very much. Lourdes was born-Deaf in Puerto Rico, and
> moved to the United States later, plus when she married in the US, she
> had hearing children, so there were many language influences in her
> life...but meanwhile...Lourdes has the courage and creativity to write
> and do the illustrations herself, and I was so impressed and surprised
> when she handed me the document that I was happy to post it. You can
> read more about Lourdes on this web page:
>
> Lourdes Tollette
> http://signwriting.org/library/children/frosty/frosty17.html
>
> And we look forward to your native ASL version of Frosty too, Adam. I
> will be happy to post that too, with your permission (grin ;-) ....
>
> Val ;-)
>
> ----------------
>
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Adam Frost wrote:
>
>> Well, it looks like I was missed on the list. I missed you all as
>> well, although I wouldn't traded going to the Caribbean Christian
>> Centre for the Deaf in Knockpatrick, Jamaica and spending the time
>> that I did with those kids. I can't even begin to tell you the
>> enjoyment that I had there. Of course that is for another time. :-)
>>
>> The question of Lourdes' choice of spelling out MADE is one of the
>> main reasons I asked if I could do a re-rendering of that part. I
>> haven't been able to get settled enough to record it, but I will get
>> to it. One thing I can assure you is that the spelling of MADE or
>> even the sign for MAKE will not be in there. I don't know if anyone
>> has ever heard this one, but I have used it a lot when in an ASL
>> class. "Show it; don't tell it." That is precisely how I will convey
>> the concept in my rendering.
>>
>> Now, since I am not Lourdes and I can't read minds all too well
>> (although I have been accused of having that ability), I suspect
>> that she spelled out made because she was trying to do a very close
>> translation of the story rather than "unwrapping the story of all
>> English wrapping and rewrapping it with ASL leaving only the diamond
>> of the story" as my translation teacher would tell me. He also said
>> that while Deaf people are more apt to being bilingual, the skill of
>> translating is almost never taught leaving Deaf people very few
>> tools to use when asked to translate a story. This is also my guess
>> why very few facial expressions were used since English isn't an
>> "animated" language like ASL. Also realizing the time when Lourdes
>> wrote that translation, most Deaf people felt (and some still do
>> today) that ASL is inferior to English.
>>
>> Just thought that I'd give a preliminary for those that have been
>> waiting for so long for the day of my return. ;-D
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On Jan 7, 2010, at 9:21 AM, SignWriting wrote:
>>
>>> SignWriting List
>>> January 7, 2009
>>>
>>> Hello Gan, Charles and Shane -
>>>
>>> Yes, Shane is right. There is definitely a way to do all
>>> modifications of verbs in sign languages, but the grammar structure
>>> is different than in spoken languages. In ASL they oftentimes will
>>> combine the sign for MAKE or CREATE, that Charles showed you, with
>>> the sign for FINISH, that gives the verb the past tense...however,
>>> we need to wait for Adam Frost to come back from his trip, since he
>>> is a native ASL signer and he can explain it better than I can...
>>>
>>> And Gan, the reason that Lourdes fingerspelled the sign for MADE is
>>> not known to us...When we publish a Deaf person's writing, we try
>>> not to change their signing style, but instead just try to assist
>>> with the way the signs are written in SignWriting...but the actual
>>> choice of fingerspelling versus using the past tense for MAKE was
>>> Lourdes' choice...and we cannot get in touch with Lourdes right
>>> now...so if you want to wait until Adam comes home...he can do his
>>> own version of Frosty and then you will have the author to ask...
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, from your software perspective, it needs to be able to
>>> capture and write fingerspelling and facial expressions, if you
>>> want the software to really be used by the ASL community, because
>>> ASL is one of those sign languages that uses a great deal of
>>> fingerspelling and all sign languages use facial expressions...
>>>
>>> ASL uses a lot of fingerspelling for scientific terms that do not
>>> have signs yet, and sometimes the fingerspelling becomes a sign in
>>> its own right, by blending together to form an unsual group of
>>> finger movements, so your software needs to get used to recognizing
>>> fingerspelling...at least ASL has one-handed fingerspelling that
>>> might be easier for your software than the two-handed
>>> fingerspelling used in the UK...
>>>
>>> Those are my thoughts. Adam will be back on January 11th...
>>>
>>> Good luck with your software - we look forward to using it someday -
>>>
>>> Val ;-)
>>>
>>> -----------
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Shane Gilchrist wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Gan,
>>>>
>>>> we dont really have past tenses in the same sense as the English
>>>> language - for instance, in BSL (using glosses - sorry!)
>>>>
>>>> I made food:
>>>>
>>>> - FOOD COOK^nodding
>>>> - FOOD COOK PAST
>>>> - FOOD COOK FINISHED!
>>>>
>>>> non-manual features are very important here.
>>>>
>>>> Shane
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2010/1/6 Gan  Lu <glu at uclan.ac.uk>:
>>>>> Hi Charles;
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the comment. So do you reckon the past tense is
>>>>> necessary here? And if we use "create". should it be 'Created'
>>>>> then?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Gan
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Charles Butler" <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com> 06/01/10 1:54 PM  
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> Hmm.  In context the sign, I would think would be either "make"
>>>>> or "create".  The tense is carried by the situation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> create
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Gan Lu <glu at uclan.ac.uk>
>>>>> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>>>> Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 8:05:15 AM
>>>>> Subject: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Adam and Valerie;
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm implementing the system now. While I have a question:
>>>>>
>>>>>  why can't we use an ASL gesture to express the meaning of
>>>>> 'made' on the first page of the 'Frosty the Snow Man', other than
>>>>> using the FingerSpellings to sign these four letters respectively?
>>>>>
>>>>>  I suppose the reason is because the word 'made' is a past
>>>>> tense, and there is no ASL for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason I'm asking is my intention is to implement the first
>>>>> page as a 4-by-4 output pattern, which are 16 sign-boxes in total
>>>>> includes those punctuations. So I'm looking for a way to squeeze
>>>>> the word 'made' into a box.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Gan
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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