WG: New version of delegs

Stefan Wöhrmann stefanwoehrmann at GOOGLEMAIL.COM
Wed May 16 11:50:58 UTC 2012

Von: Schneider, Lasse [mailto:Lasse.Schneider at c1-wps.de] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Mai 2012 12:27
An: 'Stefan Wöhrmann (stefanwoehrmann at gebaerdenschrift.de)'
Betreff: WG: New version of delegs



Hello Valerie, hello Adam,


thank you for your feedback. It’s great to see people enjoy using our



Please go ahead and inform your LIBRAS friends on facebook. The more people
know about us the better. Thank you for connecting us with SignWriting
communities all over the world. By the way you can also find us on facebook:



The problem with signs with more than one word will be fixed in the next
version (In two weeks).  Whitespaces then will be substituted by underscores
“_”. So you will be able to get the sign for “long ago” by typing


When you edit a sign in SignPuddle, the changes will be available in the
delegs-Editor the next day. We only import the SignPuddle data once a day. 

But we are implementing a sign editor for the delegs-Editor as well. In the
next version you’ll be able to move and delete symbols of a sign. Other
operations (like changing fill, rotating, adding symbols) on signs will be
possible in the versions after. To enter sign edit mode you need to double
click on a sign, but as of now you can only see the enlarged sign.


There is only one free text line per paragraph, even if there are more sign
lines than one. To create a new paragraph just hit the return key, and
you’ll get a new free text line as well.


Thanks again for your feedback. If you have any more questions just let us


Best regards,

Lasse Schneider


Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
<mailto:%5bmailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU%5d>  Im Auftrag von Adam
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Mai 2012 01:54
Betreff: Re: New version of delegs


I have to say that I am sorry that I have not been able to take a look at
DELEGS before now, but I have really enjoyed using it just now. It is really
simple to use. I was also pleased with the video that was very visual and


I do have a could of things that I noticed that could just be that I don't
understand what is going on. The first thing that I noticed was that I could
not enter a word in the word search line that had two or more words for one
sign. For example, the sign
00S38506M42x33S36d00n21xn9S14c1019xn32S2b90411x2&pad=10> is written in
SignPuddle as long ago. When I typed in long ago, DELEGS looked as them as
two separate signs. I then tried typing in long-ago without any output. Same
thing for long_ago. So what would I type in so that the sign I am looking
for will appear since there is no single word representation for this sign?


Another thing that I noticed was that there was a sign that I noticed was
written incorrectly. Since I knew that the signs were from the ASL
SignPuddle and have editing rights on the sign in question, I edited the
sign hoping that it would correct it. That didn't happen. I am guessing that
it is not possible to edit signs that are written wrong without some
background work. Is this correct?


I also noticed that punctuations do not appear, but that is because there is
no punctuation in the ASL SignPuddle so I realize that this is not a DELEGS
issue exactly. 


The last question that I had was that when I had a long sentence in
SignWriting that would last for two rows that the free text line would start
on the last line. Did I do something wrong to cause this?


I hope to understand these things so that I will be able to explain DELEGS
for ASL users. :-)




On May 15, 2012, at 12:25 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:


Hello Valerie and friends of SignWriting ,


Wow Lasse – thank you very much for your effort. This is  great news.


People can start directly to create SignWriting documents without any
download procedure. Just follow this link and you will find an open document
– click on create to start from scratch. You can write in ASL if you pick
the ASL - SignPuddle-dictionary. I would love to hear feedback from teacher
of deaf students ...


Don’t hesitate to ask questions – if there should be a problem to find your
way. (one email – one question ;-)


All best





Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
<mailto:%5bmailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU%5d>  Im Auftrag von
Stefan Wöhrmann
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2012 20:50
Betreff: WG: New version of delegs


Von: Schneider, Lasse 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2012 18:33
An: 'SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages'
Cc: WPS-SignWriting
Betreff: New version of delegs


Hello SignWritingList,


a new version of the delegs-Editor (1.14) is now online:



With this version the LSE and LIBRA dictionaries are available in the
editor. The dictionary can be chosen when opening a new document.


Please try it out, we’d love to hear your feedback.


Best regards from Germany,

Lasse Schneider



Software developer


C1 WPS Workplace Solutions               Geschäftsführer:

Gesellschaft für DV-Beratung mbH       Dr. Guido Gryczan

Vogt-Kölln-Straße 30                            Prof. Dr.-Ing. Heinz

22527 Hamburg                                    HRB 73999 – Amtsgericht

Telefon: +49 40 51 32 26 82                  Info at c1-wps.de

Telefax: +49 40 51 32 26 83                  http://www.C1-wps.de

Lasse.Schneider at c1-wps.de  



Von: Valerie Sutton [mailto:sutton at signwriting.org]
<mailto:%5bmailto:sutton at signwriting.org%5d>  
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. März 2012 18:43
An: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
Cc: Schneider, Lasse; Gryczan, Dr. Guido
Betreff: Re: iPhone App


SignWriting List

March 29, 2011


Hello Lasse, Guido, Stefan, Steve, Trevor, Arthaey and everyone -


This is very magical. A big THANK YOU to the DELEGS software team from
Germany, for all you are doing for SignWriting users around the world, and
thank you also to Steve Slevinski, for providing us the foundation software
of SignPuddle, the SignWriting Image Server, and other software
developments. I feel so blessed to know that our SignPuddle Online is being
used in this way, to help the DELEGS software build upon our SignWriting
online community - Stefan showed me the details of DELEGS yesterday on
Skype, and I want to thank you for providing an ASL version of DELEGS now,
which accesses the SignPuddle ASL Dictionary online. I look forward to
explaining to our ASL users how to use DELEGS, as soon as I can.


As you know, Steve is developing a new version of SignPuddle 
2.0. I assume that the transition should be smooth, but you may want to
contact Steve to discuss any issues - SignPuddle 2.0 is an improvement,
mainly for improved searching
not only for spoken language searching, but
improved searching by SignWriting symbols, and searching by SignWriting
symbol frequency, which is important for linguistic research. All SignText
documents and SignMaker dictionary entries will be able to be searched by
Symbol Frequency in SignPuddle 2.0, and the results of listed signs will be
quite fast.


Now, Lasse, it is a pleasure to meet you! You have made us all so happy and
excited about your SignWriting App project. Thank you for taking this big
task on your shoulders
. Is your thesis the equivalent to what we call a
Masters Degree (MA) or a dissertation for a Ph.D? I realize our school
systems are different, but I think you know what I mean - no matter what,
when the degree is complete, I will be happy to inform our SignWriting web
site visitors about your new thesis, and new SW app.


Thank you for attaching screen captures, below, that show us how the app
looks - It looks wonderful!!


The fact that it will work in one direction with SignPuddle as well as
DELEGS is a real gift. You mention that maybe one day it could work for
SignPuddle in both directions
Please feel free to contact me and Steve any
time, to see what needs to be done to make that possible. Maybe we can help

I know Steve has been planning to develop for Apple devices at some point in
the future 
maybe this will speed up the process


The day you announce that the SignWriting app is available in the Apple
Store, I will buy iPad3 and be in heaven!


We would love to give you feedback. Can you join the SignWriting List and
make your announcements for testing to the List? That will be a big help to
all of us:



<http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1> &A=1


Look forward to hearing from you -


And thank you once again -


Val ;-)

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
<http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1> &A=1







On Mar 29, 2012, at 7:22 AM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:


Schneider, Lasse [mailto:Lasse.Schneider at c1-wps.de]
<mailto:%5bmailto:Lasse.Schneider at c1-wps.de%5d>  



Hello SignWriting List,

First of all I’d like to introduce myself. My name is Lasse Schneider   and
I’m a software developer in the German delegs project, where we develop  a
web application for writing and managing bilingual SignWriting documents. I
hope you’ve already heard about us. If not you’ll find more information on
<http://www.delegs.de> www.delegs.de

I’m also a student of computer science at the university of Hamburg, and I’m
currently working on my thesis. The topic of my thesis is a sign editor for
the iPad. It’s a tool to create new signs in SignWriting and edit existing
ones. So basically for the same purpose as the sign maker, which you know
from SignPuddle. The app takes advantage of the modern way to interact on a
touch device to improve its usability. It uses the backend of the
delegs-Editor, so signs created and edited with the iPad app can be used in
the delegs-Editor. Delegs procures its signs from SignPuddle. Therefore the
iPad app is also connected to SignPuddle in one direction, as you can use
signs of SignPuddle in the app. The other direction is not supported yet.
Meaning new signs or editing to signs you’ve done in the app will not appear
in SignPuddle (Hopefully one day they will).

The app is still being developed at the moment. So unfortunately it is not
available at the Apple App Store yet. I’ve attached a few screenshots of the
app, so you can get a first impression. I’ll let you know when the app is
available in the App Store, so you’ll be able to download it and try it out.
Until then I’m open to questions and all kind of feedback. :-)


Best regards,

Lasse Schneider




Von: Gryczan, Dr. Guido 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. März 2012 10:37
An: Schneider, Lasse
Cc: WPS-SignWriting
Betreff: Fwd: iPhone App


Hallo Lasse,

I suggest that you should inform "the world" about the iPad-FrontEnd for
SignPuddle and delegs.de








Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail:


Von: Valerie Sutton <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG>

Betreff: Re: iPhone App

Datum: 29. März 2012 04:29:26 MESZ


Antwort an: "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages"


SignWriting List

March 28, 2012


Hi Arthaey again -


On Mar 28, 2012, at 6:34 PM, Arthaey Angosii wrote:


On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>

Regarding a SignWriting app for the iPad
 Yesterday for the first time, I

heard that a German programmer has developed or is developing a SignWriting

app for the iPad
 Stefan Woehrmann told me about it in a Skype conversation.

I am excited to learn more about it myself 

Do let us know if you hear any more about this!



I will - Stefan - can you tell us more about the iPad app for SignWriting
which was demonstrated to you recently? Perhaps you can ask the programmer
or developer to get in touch with us? We are so curious




Regarding SignWriting Shorthand, it is not handwriting, but a little like

Pitman or Gregg Shorthand in English - and was used in the 1980's to take

notes for Deaf signers in the classroom, writing the signing of the

interpreter at speed. And it worked for the students who took notes with the

Shorthand. However, SignWriting has changed since and the Shorthand needs to

be updated to match the way we write today and we have not done that yet

I hadn't realized SignWriting had evolved so much — but that's a good
thing! That means it's improving as folks use it, right? :)




SignWriting has vastly improved since 1974, and since the 1980's and so
every decade has brought important improvements that evolved naturally
through usage - that is the important point - It is a flexible writing
system that is alive and well -


Have you seen this new web site on the SignWriting Script? someone just
showed it to me the other day -  I was so happy to see it:


Script Source: SignWriting

> &key=Sgnw



I ask about shorthand and cursive because I'm concerned that print
SignWriting is too cumbersome to use for writing notes in class. I
wanted to see examples of people's personal shortcuts they've taken to
make SignWriting look less like a bunch of diagrams and more like,
well, writing. ;) But I am interested in forms of SignWriting that are
complete enough to not need immediate re-transcription, the way true
shorthands do.


Smile - first, no worries
SignWriting is flourishing written by hand as well
as by computer. Some people write painstakingly beautifully by hand, the way
people wrote English beautifully by hand back in the 1800s
and other people
write fast and can read each other's writing just fine - but that is not
shorthand - it is handwritten notes - shorthand is a different way of
writing based on shortcuts and phonetic pieces of words like a court
recorder, who gets training with special machines - so let's call it cursive
or handwriting, but not shorthand -


It is true that we could use some "formal" textbooks teaching handwriting
skills, but that will come in time -



Do you have any samples of letters, or notes, or what-have-you, that
are good examples of quickly-written but still-legible(-to-the-author)


Sure - anyone want to show Arthaey some of their handwritten notes? smile


As far as good examples on the web -



Darline was aghast when I posted this one, because she was just writing
handwritten notes for herself and never expected it to become an example
that it is possible to write by hand (smile)


and here is an article that goes on for more than 6 pages showing lots of
go from page to page to page...






If you are thinking of texting on iPhones or iPads with SignWriting, I

believe there will be a day when SignWriting texting will occur - and that

just might become the new "Shorthand" - who knows?!!

In order for SignWriting to be supported for texting, it would have to
be supported directly by Apple — which seems unlikely to happen. But
it *would* be possible to create an iPhone app that was dedicated to
SignWriting, which wouldn't need any official recognition by Apple
apart from normal approval in the app store.


That would be great and would mean a big shift in people's awareness of



So Arthaey - tell us - are you interested in developing a SignWriting app

for the iPhone?

I am a programmer by trade, but I haven't done any iOS programming
before. Although I *am* interested in making an iPhone app, I would
not do justice to a SignWriting app until I've learned both ASL and
SignWriting better first. :)


That's true, but your interest and technical support will be welcome -


On the other hand, I do have a lot of professional web development
experience and would consider making a smartphone-friendly version of
the SignPuddle website. (The site does work on my iPhone's web
browser, but it could definitely be a smoother, easier experience.)
Would you be interested in that?


As you know, SignPuddle is designed and developed by Steve Slevinski, who is
right now finishing up the development of a new version of
SignPuddle 2. We hope to be using SignPuddle 2 online in the next
month or so


Once SignPuddle 2 is working well, the next item on Steve's To-Do List is to
work on this very issue - there are new web browsers out there now that do
not all work the same and SignPuddle needs to become cross-platform with all
the latest web browsers including Safari,  Google Chrome and RockMelt - 


So you need to ask Steve if you could be of help - If you could work
together and it speeds up the process of course it would be a blessing for
everyone - We are a non-profit and we do not have any funds to help you with
this task - so I do not want to impose on you...


No matter what, thanks for the offer and for this interesting chat!




Val ;-)

Valerie Sutton
Sutton at SignWriting.org

Read & Write Sign Languages

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Dipl.-Inform. Dr. Guido Gryczan

C1 WPS Workplace Solutions           Geschäftsführer:

Gesellschaft für DV-Beratung mbH     Dr. Guido Gryczan

Vogt-Kölln-Straße 30; 22527 Hamburg  Prof. Dr.-Ing. Heinz Züllighoven

Telefon: +49 40 51 32 26 82          HRB 73999 - Amtsgericht Hamburg

Telefax: +49 40 51 32 26 83          info at c1-wps.de

Mobil:   +49 172 406 83 48             http://www.c1-wps.de

guido.gryczan at c1-wps.de              

C1 WPS ist ein Unternehmen der C1 Group 







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