AW: discussion: design of bent fingers

Thu Feb 14 12:13:34 UTC 2013

I agree with both you and Valerie. As a handwriting system, not locked into a space requirement of a computer system working with other design requirements, the curve is clear and beautiful.

As a font requirement, where all the elements of design must fit within designed parameters so that all parts fit together, your curved fingers would have to be shorter to fit within the frame of the hands for the two fingers. Valerie is correct on that point.

What happens then is that were you to design a font, then the entire font will need to be viewed as a piece. Will ALL of the design elements, not just one hand, fit within a design framework so that if you, for example, put a flat open 5 hand with the curves of motion around it that it doesn't conflict in size and shape. You can't change one element, without looking at how that element effects all other places.

If you design a font, then all points of the font have to work together, essentially a complete redesign. Just like an italic font and a square font can work together. 

But if you go to a different font altogether, then the F of Lucida Console in a LARGER size can't possibly be expected to match a larger font that is curved. It's a different style for a different purpose.  

Charles Butler

chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com

240-764-5748

Clear writing moves business forward.

--- On Wed, 2/13/13, Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE> wrote:

From: Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE>
Subject: AW: discussion: design of bent fingers
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 6:40 PM

Hi Charles, Valerie and
sw-list members,  

Perhaps this sign can
explain better what is on my mind  - the two hands move inwards –
startposition U-hand a little bit curved – in the endposition the two
fingers are really bent as much as possible –  

I know and I understand
that the symbol with the bent square fingers has
been accepted and is established in order to indicate this clearly.  

Our Font- design team would love to write this instead
with the curved lines as you can see on the left...  

Would this be correct?  Is there inany way  a kind of
violation of principles? Is this a matter of artwork?  

All best Stefan  

Von:
SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] Im
Auftrag von Stefan Wöhrmann

Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Februar
2013 00:24

An: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU

Betreff: AW: discussion: design of
bent fingers 

Hi Charles, Valerie...  

please let me explain
again – I am not discussing different signs.  I am not discussing
that it is possible to bent the fingers just a little bit or extremely. I would
like to discuss  

the possibility to write
the  bent index as a bent sqare finger or as a half –circle
curve.  See the sign below. Looking at the left or right hand there should
not be any difference – well perhaps except for the “feeling”
– smile  

If you bent your fingers
– you can write this as bent square
fingers.   (We find this for handshapes with one, two or three
fingers) We do not find this for 4 or 5 fingers –  

Why?  

Well the fingers bent the same way but the design of
that given handshape shows smooth lines instead of “bent square
fingers”  

Is this because of a design – problem with old
software or is there an idea behind this concept.  

I fully agree with your last statement
  “  "beautiful" artwork must make sure that you
don't lose articulation. “   That is the reason that I ask for
your opinion smile!  

Hi Valerie – what
do you think ?  

All best 

Stefan  

Von:
SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] Im
Auftrag von Charles Butler

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. Februar
2013 23:12

An:
SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU

Betreff: Re: discussion: design of
bent fingers 

  For me there is an essential difference between a bent
  finger and a smoothed finger when you miss the point that two joints are
  bent, like the difference between "depend" where the joints
  smoothly go into a curve, and "friend" where they clearly link as
  bent square fingers. (McDonald's
  two CURVES) or (etc.)
  and something with clearly the first and second joints clearly squared. 

  This
  is the sign for Mexican from a sarape (a blanket used as a wrap). It would
  not be correct to make the sign without an actual hooked finger as a
  "minimal pair", so, for me, "beautiful" artwork must make
  sure that you don't lose articulation. 

  Charles Butler

  chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com

  240-764-5748

  Clear writing moves business forward.

  --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GOOGLEMAIL.COM>
  wrote: 

  From: Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GOOGLEMAIL.COM>

  Subject: discussion: design of bent fingers

  To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU

  Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 PM 

  Hi Valerie and sw-friends,  

  I would like to ask for your
  comments about the following issue. 

  Within our delegs-projekt a group
  of specialized design-students have a second look at the various SW-symbols. From
  their point of view there are options to “improve” the design of
  some symbols in order to make the whole SW-symbol-font look more
  “modern” or “nice” 

  While preparing some studies of
  the ongoing process they showed up with the question whether the bent index
  can be written with smooth curves as well showing the index finger bent as
  you designed it as a finger with sharp edges.  

  I played around with the signmaker
  to create a little demo of what I am talking about.  ;-))  

  Interesting question – so I
  looked carefully at the Symbolset and discovered that the “claw
  hand”  is designed exactly this way  (rounded lines for the
  fingers)  
  On the other hand the hands with
  only one, two or at least three fingers show this other design with sharp 90°
  angles.  

  Can you tell us: Is this a matter
  of history? Coming from the old “DOS-SW-Software – we could not
  write nice circles either. You know this “old symbol” just
  indicating that you are supposed to see a circle-movement shown as some dots
  in a circle.  

  What about this difference between
  a clawhand with curves or the same hand written with edges?  

  Is there any meaningful difference
  in the background that you would want us to know?   Or is this a
  matter of artwork? ... or  something else?  

  Would it be any difference if we
  would write all these bent fingers with soft rounded lines?  

  Thank you very much for your
  attention.  

  All best  

  Stefan  

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20130214/47de1515/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image004.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 663 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20130214/47de1515/attachment.gif>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image005.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 748 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20130214/47de1515/attachment-0001.gif>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image006.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 632 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20130214/47de1515/attachment-0002.gif>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image007.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 869 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20130214/47de1515/attachment-0003.gif>