[Sw-l] [SPAM] Rotations and Travelling

Adam Frost icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM
Mon May 7 12:54:36 EDT 2018 

Hello Rachel,

Sorry for the slow reply. It’s finals week for one of the schools I teach at.

You are right that there isn’t a detailed arrow for traveling up while rotating forward and back. The reason is partly because there is no simple and clear why to stack those symbols in a similar fashion to the other detailed traveling and rotating arrows.

If you don’t have to have such detail, I would use the generic “shaking” symbol:

  



However, if you must have the details, you could place the two symbols you identified in your previous email next to each other rather than stacking them to make it clear that there is a forward and then backward rotation rather than just some unknown number of rotations.



  

Adam

> On May 5, 2018, at 5:01 PM, <rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET> <rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,  I have a question about travelling and rotation. There are quite a few signs where the hands or arms move and the forearm twists at the same time.  I know there are several sets of symbols to cover many of these situations.  However, I just came across a case where I can’t seem to find the right travelling rotation:
>  
> http://www.signtyp.uconn.edu/signpuddle/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=9033&sid=12927 <http://www.signtyp.uconn.edu/signpuddle/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=9033&sid=12927>
>  
> This is a sign for Venetian blinds and many of the signers put their arms parallel to the floor and then rotate the forearm to show the blinds opening and closing.  Some of the signers, like this one, also move the whole arm up.  What I think you would need is a movement symbol that looks like this one:
>  
> <image002.png>
>  
>  
> And a rotation curve that looks like this:
> <image006.png>
>  
>  
> But, I don’t see a symbol that combines these two actions.  So I have two questions:
>  
> Is there a symbol that I am missing?
> If there is no such symbol, can I just write both of the symbols above separately and that would mean the same thing?
>  
> Thanks, Rachel
>  
> From: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>> On Behalf Of Adam Frost
> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:43 PM
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Sidewall curves
>  
> I guess you could write HAPPY with the second arrow, but I would actually just write it with a regular up arrow to keep it simple.
>  
> ADMIT has a different movement. It starts closest to the body and then goes up and over like a hill. It is probably called something like “Curve Hits Ceiling”.
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2018, at 6:54 PM, <rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET <mailto:rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET>> <rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET <mailto:rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET>> wrote:
>>  
>> Thank you, Adam!  You are (of course) right – I mixed up the symbols and the ones I included are the ones that come in toward the signer and back out.  I imagine it could be used for the sign HAPPY or perhaps the sign ADMIT?  Would you use
>>  
>> <image005.png>
>>  
>> http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2b1 <http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2b1>
>>  
>> Or would this one be better:
>> <image006.png>
>>  
>>  
>> http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2ad <http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2ad>
>>  
>> My feeling is that the second one is better, because I think the first one means rotation of the forearm, but the second one is a more general movement from the elbow or wrist or a combination.  Do you agree?
>>  
>> Rachel
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>> On Behalf Of Adam Frost
>> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 11:15 AM
>> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: Sidewall curves
>>  
>> Hello Rachel,
>>  
>> These movements are on a plane that run vertical with the center of the body. The dot means that part of the movement is closest to your body while the rest is away from the front of your body. So the examples you have are actually the opposite since that part of the curve is farthest from the body.
>>  
>> Now for the question you have about the pairs of arrows where the curve is written from the left verses from the right. Basically, they describe the same movement; however, they are useful in circumstances where the plane that intercepts the body isn’t a perfect 90º angle. That means if the curve comes from the right, then the sum symbol with the right curve would work better than left.
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 2, 2018, at 6:15 PM, <rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET <mailto:rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET>> <rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET <mailto:rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Hello everyone,  I have some questions about the sidewall curves.
>>>  
>>> 񊃡
>>> 񊃢
>>> 񊃣
>>> 񊃤
>>> <image003.png>
>>>  
>>> The full set can be seen at http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2b1 <http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2b1>
>>>  
>>> These are the four right handed curves that are named “Rotation Single hits chest”, or “Curves hit chest”.  Stephen Parkhurst explains:
>>> These two arrows represent up-and-down movement that curves toward the body. The basic movement is up and down, so the arrow used is double stemmed.
>>>  
>>> The black dot between the arrow stems means that the hand moves closer to the body during its trajectory and then moves away.
>>>  
>>> So for example, if you were describing a big belly,  you might use one of these symbols. Or in ASL, versions of SANTACLAUS  and THANKSGIVING might use the third or fourth symbols going down from the chin to the chest.   The first and second symbols go up and out (toward the viewer) and then curve back toward the signer.  The third and fourth symbols go down and out and then curve back to the signer.
>>>  
>>> My question is:  what is the difference between the first and the second?  What is the difference between the third and fourth?  Are they just style variations?
>>>  
>>> I’d also like to verify my assumption that although these symbols are labelled as “rotations” they don’t necessarily involve a forearm twist, but rather the focus is on the movement of the hand, which could be caused by a forearm twist or could be the whole elbow-shoulder complex moving the hand in space.  Do I have that right?
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Thanks!  Rachel
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
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>>>  
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>>  
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>  
> ________________________________________________ 
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