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<DIV><SPAN class=156205319-28022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Bill, </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=156205319-28022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=156205319-28022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>no
problem - we can perform whatever we want and we can write as accurately
as we want - smile</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=156205319-28022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=156205319-28022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Do you
think that a video of this sign in a context of a prayer would give any proof
that there is a pure rotation movement without traveling at first - and after
the endposition is reached -back of hand upside ?, thumb - fingertips-contact -
and after a minimum pause the fingers will spread and the hand will move down
.... </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=156205319-28022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=156205319-28022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>You
see - I am no expert on ASL (smile) - but the interesting thing is that we
can improve our spelling skills to express in the written SW-document the
movement that is on our mind, or that is videotaped and waiting for the
interpretation of the viewer -- </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=156205319-28022004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=156205319-28022004>Can you offer your SW - suggestion </SPAN><SPAN
class=156205319-28022004> ?? </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=156205319-28022004></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=156205319-28022004>Stefan:-))</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<BR><B>Von:</B> SignWriting List
[mailto:SW-L@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA]<B>Im Auftrag von </B>Bill
Reese<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Samstag, 28. Februar 2004 16:18<BR><B>An:</B>
SW-L@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA<BR><B>Betreff:</B> Re: comparison of lifelike
drawings, word description and SW -spell ing- Grace A<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>I
sent this to Stefan directly by mistake. Reposting here.. Bill
...<BR><BR>Stefan,<BR><BR>I'd like to comment on the rotation movement.
From what it looks like in Grace A, there is a rotation movement first and
then the transition between the first handshape and the second.
That seems to be consistant with the concept of grace turning toward a person
first and then being bestowed. In that context, I would deem the
movement very important.<BR><BR>Bill<BR><BR><BR>Stefan Woehrmann wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid0HTR009YGI8W6A@ms-mss-01.tampabay.rr.com type="cite">
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<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Tini, Valerie and list members, </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>great to hear from you - and thank you very much for your spelling -
discussion - </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
bet all of us can learn a lot from this - </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>First of all - it is good to concentrate on writing a given movement
- so we do not discuss different variations of a sign in any SL but just on
how to write the given hand shapes, movements -- </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>(Hi Valerie, Charles, friend from Japan .. remember our wonderful
workshop on video transcription of the Markus evangelium , unfortunately we
ended too soon ....;-)) but I learned a lot from
that...)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>What is so interesting to me in these spelling discussions is that
different people look and identify different aspects - of the
important parameters - </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>SW
can be written much more precisely - compared to drawings, movies, word
descriptions ... </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>On
the other hand - ask 5 Deaf native signers and ask them to
sign the same sign and you definitely will find differences in their
performance ... that can be written in SW </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Even one and the same signer will perform the same sign on 7 days
differently .... ;-)) </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Tini - </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Look at your attached graphic - lifelike drawing of your
Grace(A) and Grace (B)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
refer to the Sutton-Symbol-Sequence 2002 - this way you know what hand shape
I am talking about! ( Great job - Valerie!!) </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Looking at the description </FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>in words - you get the idea of a hand shape like SSS
01-05-025 (Oval) (thumb touching the (=all) fingertips - the drawing
on the other hand looks more like 01- 05 - 020 (Circle)
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>The explanation says : " The hand seems to take s.th. from God ... )
Therefore - the author thinks obviously of a hinge- movement - which might
end in hand shape - hand shape - 01-05-030 (Angel) ...
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>(You decided to start with this hand shape .... )</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>now second phase- </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>"spreading the fingers and moving down - " - you decided to
choose symbol 01-05-003 (5 Fingers Bent = claw-hand)
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>well the drawing shows fingers that are not bent ??? perhaps 01 - 05
- 005 (5 Fingers cup) or more likely 01 - 05 - 006 5 Fingers
Hinge </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>what about hand-orientation - </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>the text says .. "shower it down..." Perhaps the focus could be on
back of hand upside ?? instead of palm facing ?? What do you think??
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>What about eye gaze ? Both of the signers look straight ahead . but
is this indented or just a matter of how to produce lots of lifelike
drawings with a given set of faces ... ?? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
rather would expect an eye gaze diagonal upwards ....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
agree - with Valerie - I try to avoid additional movement arrows if
the starting position and the end position defines what has to happen to get
there ;-))) </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468321020-27022004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So
in this case as well - no additional rotation movement - symbol needed
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=468321020-27022004>Perhaps you or other list members are interested to
create some other spellings of this posted - lifelike - drawing with text -
illustration - In the end we will see that it is worth to understand that
the best way to communicate about movement is not a video, a life-like
drawing or a description by words but a spelling with an extraordinary
movement writing system - like SW - </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=468321020-27022004>Have a great day</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=468321020-27022004>Stefan;-)) </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=468321020-27022004>PS -I attached Your illustration once more
..... Are you interested in a discussion about your second spelling?
Grace B??? </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<BR><B>Von:</B> SignWriting List
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:SW-L@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA">mailto:SW-L@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA</A>]<B>Im
Auftrag von </B>Tini Pel<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Freitag, 27. Februar 2004
16:37<BR><B>An:</B> <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:SW-L@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA">SW-L@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA</A><BR><B>Betreff:</B>
SW. Grace<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello Valerie and list,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well here is my try-out of writing both signs
of Grace in S.W. See previous message.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><IMG alt="" hspace=0 src="cid:156205319@28022004-08d5" align=bottom
border=0></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tini.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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