<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>
<P>Hey,</P>
<P>I'm not saying there should'nt be a working language to make things easier. But who dicides which one it will be. Why BSL? I just find it a 'big' coincidence that it is English for hearing people, and would be BSL for Deaf people. My knowledge of BSL is limited to 'single'. And the alfabet. My knowledge of ASL is much more extensive. How come? I'm a European no? Ofcourse I'm not really daily in international contact, mostly Deaf friends from other country's. Not on a confrence like level ;)</P>
<P>I'm all for a language that has a reason of becoming a working language because it developed that way. By certain circumstances, but a language that is forced on to people will not succeed I think. We have 'Esperanto' and 'Gestuno' to prove that. </P>
<P>And just for the record, we Flemish people are masters in adapting ourselfs to other languages. We are known for it ;) So you are not alone ;)</P>
<P>Greetings Kathleen</P>
<P>Ps: you can find the 'h' letter in our Flemish signpuddle :p:p:p</P>
<P> </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Shane Gilchrist Ó hEorpa"<shane.gilchrist.oheorpa@francismaginn.org>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>>To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: [sw-l] BSL & English
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:04:55 -0000
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Kathleen,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Don’t u think it’s a bit unfair that we already communicate in the 'working
<DIV></DIV>>language' ie ENGLISH here - to make things easier for everyone? Is it okay
<DIV></DIV>>for hearies to communicate in the lingua franca yet not okay for deafies to
<DIV></DIV>>do the same? :D
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>BSL, NISL and ISL are the only national sign languages in Europe that
<DIV></DIV>>follows close to English – ISL and NISL are smaller languages (and less
<DIV></DIV>>exposure) and we Irish often end up learning other people’s sign languages
<DIV></DIV>>to communicate better – after all, we are a nation of effective
<DIV></DIV>>communicators! ;-)
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>The Amsterdam Manifesto did say that either BSL or ASL should be used as the
<DIV></DIV>>working language – and more and more Europeans have started to use BSL (or
<DIV></DIV>>even AUSLAN) – it is very obvious that deaf gay Europeans (who travel a lot
<DIV></DIV>>more than any other deaf people) have started to use BSL as the lingua
<DIV></DIV>>franca of Europe – so I guess its already paved.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>We have English as the working language already in Europe – and obviously we
<DIV></DIV>>do need a working sign language. The EUD won't say anything on this matter –
<DIV></DIV>>yet the Amsterdam Manifesto have kinda declared BSL as the working language
<DIV></DIV>>for the European Union.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Shane.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>p.s. ASL/BSL being killer languages – its only if national sign languages
<DIV></DIV>>are not protected – for instance the Far East or Africa (or even Latin
<DIV></DIV>>America) but I don’t think it ll happen in Europe anyway (I know there is a
<DIV></DIV>>influx of ASL in VGT & NGT – but it is the responsibility of the VGT
<DIV></DIV>>community and the NGT community to do something about it!)
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>p.s.s. anything will do if I don’t have to sign your VGT sign for 'h' - it
<DIV></DIV>>does my head in!!! :o (joking)
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>From: owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>>[mailto:owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu] On Behalf Of Kasterlinden
<DIV></DIV>>Bilinguaal
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: 17 January 2005 11:42
<DIV></DIV>>To:
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: RE: AW: [sw-l] Back in action! education system Norway
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Hey Shane and list,
<DIV></DIV>>I'm sorry, we don't agree with that statement!! Why should it be BSL? Why
<DIV></DIV>>not any other sign language in Europe? Is it because spoken English is so
<DIV></DIV>>frequently used? Sign languages are not dependent on that I believe?
<DIV></DIV>>Have you heared/seen of 'killerlanguages'? ASL is taking over some smaller
<DIV></DIV>>sign languages. Maybe BSL will do the same in Europe?
<DIV></DIV>>Just raising questions here ;)
<DIV></DIV>>Greetings Kathleen and Sara
<DIV></DIV>> >From: "Shane Gilchrist Ó hEorpa"<shane.gilchrist.oheorpa@francismaginn.org>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >Reply-To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> >To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: RE: AW: [sw-l] Back in action! education system Norway
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:40:51 -0000
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >I am glad that BSL is used to teach English in Norway - we are trying to
<DIV></DIV>> >make BSL the 'working language' in the European Union - for Deaf Europeans
<DIV></DIV>> >to communicate with each other.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Shane
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >-----Original Message-----
<DIV></DIV>> >From: owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> >[mailto:owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu] On Behalf Of Stefan Wöhrmann
<DIV></DIV>> >Sent: 16 January 2005 21:12
<DIV></DIV>> >To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: AW: AW: [sw-l] Back in action! education system Norway
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Hi Ingvild,
<DIV></DIV>> >I feel so astonished - once again - because I hardly cannot believe that -
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >so little deaf students at age 6 or 7 enter school and they get all these
<DIV></DIV>> >options:
<DIV></DIV>> >1) Norwegian spoken language (articulation, and written form)
<DIV></DIV>> >2) Norwegian SL (with SW ??)
<DIV></DIV>> >3) English
<DIV></DIV>> >4) British Sign Language
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Well here in Germany I am eager to find a kind of questionaire to make a
<DIV></DIV>> >statemment what kind of communicative skills and general knowledge is to be
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >found in children who are DEAF and leave the kindergarden for school.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >I would not dare to teach English until the German skills are on the way.
<DIV></DIV>> >But it is so fascinating to learn about different concepts....
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Too many deaf children do not have any (!!!!) comunicative skills
<DIV></DIV>> >whatsoever - they get hearing device - perhaps CI - but if that does not
<DIV></DIV>> >work they pretty much lost if they start at school with nothing!!!!
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Hearing parents are almost unable to learn SL after they have been told
<DIV></DIV>>that
<DIV></DIV>> >CI and SL are two different worlds.
<DIV></DIV>> >My students are a wonderful proof that the contrary is the case ... but
<DIV></DIV>> >anyway.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >It took us so long to get the foundation that now we start to have
<DIV></DIV>>classroom
<DIV></DIV>> >discussions in SL - some of the students developes oral skills whereas
<DIV></DIV>> >others could not take any advantage from their CI or hearing aids.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >So it would be interesting to learn from you and others - do you implement
<DIV></DIV>> >SignWriting from the very beginning - kindergarden?
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >How many classes are taught with SignWriting? Can you estimate that?
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Thanks a lot for your time!
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Stefan ;-))
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
<DIV></DIV>> >Von: owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> >[mailto:owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu]Im Auftrag von Ingvild Roald
<DIV></DIV>> >Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. Januar 2005 19:35
<DIV></DIV>> >An: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> >Betreff: RE: AW: [sw-l] Back in action!
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Yes. Norwegian, Nowregian Sign Language, English and British Sign Language
<DIV></DIV>>-
<DIV></DIV>> >from day one.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Ingvild
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >From: "Stefan Wöhrmann"<stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Reply-To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> > >To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> > >Subject: AW: [sw-l] Back in action!
<DIV></DIV>> > >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:02:51 +0100
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Hi Ingvild -
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >just curous - so little deaf children will learn British SignLanguage
<DIV></DIV>>from
<DIV></DIV>> > >day one at school for the DEAF?
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Stefan ;-))
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
<DIV></DIV>> > >Von: owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> > >[mailto:owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu]Im Auftrag von Ingvild Roald
<DIV></DIV>> > >Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. Januar 2005 14:22
<DIV></DIV>> > >An: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> > >Cc: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<DIV></DIV>> > >Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Back in action!
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Here in Norway we do teach dual language (NSL and Norwegian) to deaf
<DIV></DIV>> > >students, wheter they are in an integrated setting or in a special
<DIV></DIV>> > >setting, since 1997. I will find the appropriate links to
<DIV></DIV>>English-language
<DIV></DIV>> > >descriptions in a day or two. - We also teach English and BSL as second
<DIV></DIV>> > >language from grade one.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Ingvild,
<DIV></DIV>> > >Vestlandet Resource Center,
<DIV></DIV>> > >Norway
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu skriver:
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >At the moment, we are sending a request to the Department of Education
<DIV></DIV>> > > >for Northern Ireland to get the funding to start a Dual Language
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Immersion (integrated) primary school where children, deaf and
<DIV></DIV>> > > >non-deaf, will be taught through NISL and English (ISL and English if
<DIV></DIV>> > > >in the Western Area of NI) - so I am very glad Kathleen have raised the
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >point here - it is very important to know how our national sign
<DIV></DIV>> > > >languages are being taught etc - most of us are so used to teaching
<DIV></DIV>> > > >adults - or even kids as second languages - but to teach our national
<DIV></DIV>> > > >sign language as the first language?
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >maybe some of us in Europe can set up a working group on sign language
<DIV></DIV>> > > >curriculum (across Europe) and discuss what is needed what is to be
<DIV></DIV>> > > >taught etc
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >what do you think, Kathleen?
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Shane
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >On 13 Jan 2005, at 22:20, Anne-Claude Prélaz Girod wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> I'm actually working with the group of deaf teachers of one of the
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> french speaking part of Switzerland's school for the deaf... on...how
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> to teach sign language... and it's true that there's not much
<DIV></DIV>>existing
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> about didactics...
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> But ...there is a document called "le premier outil pédagogique pour
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> la langue des signes" which was on the web on
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> www.education.gouv.fr/presse/2002/signedp.htm
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> and then click on the pdf document for "langue des signes"
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> Hope it can help... even though (if I remember well...) you don't
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> speak french
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> You should ask someone to translate it for you.. it's a valuable
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> tool!!! and it's the only one I know about!
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> Yours truly
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> Anny
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >> Le 13 janv. 05, à 21:24, Kasterlinden Bilinguaal a écrit :
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> Hello list,
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> holliday is over, back to work! ;) Hope you all had a good newyear.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> I have a question for the teachers who are on this list. I see that
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> SignWriting is being used in many country's now, and I'm very happy
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> about that. I'm wondering if you could help me out. I'm looking for
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> information on sign language didactics. Do any of you have a
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> curriculum on teaching sign language or to use SignWriting? Because
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> there is no such thing in Belgium. :s
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> So any information would be great!
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> Thank you!
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> Greetings Kathleen
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>> Koop geen kat in een zak. Probeer alles 14 dagen bij jou thuis.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>Heb je MSN WebMessenger al ontdekt?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBNLBE/2746??PS=47575" target="_top">Gratis en voor niks je eigen blog !</a> </html>