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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hello <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Antony</st1:place></st1:City> and listmembers, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>thank you so much for your input. I
really love to read your comment and your ideas are very, very welcome to make
up my mind, to try to figure out what I am doing, to understand that something
is difficult to understand if people come from a different background. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>You know what – I made a
print-out of your two messages regarding “Mundbilder” within SW-
documents. And I still try to find out a way to explain .... myself. (smile) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>SignWriting is a most welcome
powerful tool in teaching deaf children from age 2-3 on!!! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>More of that I am convinced that
even hearing babies would love to play around with SW-memory cards and toys and
picture- dictionaries and so forth. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Now – when we meet deaf
children with a sad first phase of their lives – coming from a hearing
background, struggling in a world of not knowing how to express their needs,
feelings, - not knowing anything about spoken language and grammar, not knowing
basic knowledge about SL – well these children do have a very hard time
to start school – <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Their hearing peers are much, much
better of – and I bet that here and there a little deaf child gets a
label of learning disabled just because the adults missed to support this kids with
a functioning communication system. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Now – these deaf children are
in bad need for a communication system – the best would be to strengthen
their dialogic competence as quick as possible using Sign Language. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Afterwards you may want to add the
first “foreign language” which is the spoken language of their region
– <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>In my classroom – as you might
know – the little deaf children came at age 7 with no communication
skills whatsoever!! ( This is hard to believe) There family background (
language ) has not been German, but several foreign countries – so their
parents are not even able to communicate in German ! Now these children are
expected to follow the same curriculum that has been worked out for their
hearing peers.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Unless I started to translate tons
of papers there has not been any different book or written material – so they
go the same book for mathematics, German ... That has been ridiculous and I
felt pretty much desperate. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>So there is a major problem. without
any strong language background these deaf !!! children are expected to learn
contents in a spoken language which has been of no advantage in the past for
them. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Starting articulation, German
vocabulary, grammar ... I understood that they are very confused by all these
different languages – <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Within the past five years we have
started from the ground – so there must be something very valuable in
this concept with SignWriting as the keystone. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Interestingly I write more and more
Mundbilder for the purpose of learning new vocabulary! So if I ask the students
to show there competence in translating a signed sentence – they are much
better of, if they can look at the Mundbilder!! As soon as they are aware of
the meaning, or different meanings of a sign I can write less of them. But
nevertheless – and this seems to be a problem to understand – in Germany
we can observe a signing style – that goes along with a lot of Mundbilder
– just as borrowing additional markers from the oral language in order to
make it more easy to identify a sign. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>From time to time a make a joke. I
hide under a bag and sign to my students. Now they cannot see any facial
expression but just my hands. And you are right! Most of the time They identify
this signing without any problem!!! But it is concentrated on some easy to
understand concepts, often used questions, well known names ... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I do not know whether my German
students are the only people in the world who are asked to write vocabulary-tests
and complete translations from SL or signed German to Spoken Language?? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Whenever I see documents with the
translation of the signs just within the next line ( or underneath) I
understand that there is no need to use Mundbilder (smile)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Well – nevertheless – I understand
from daily teaching experience that my students improve their Literacy and competence
in SL and German by presenting these two documents – written in
SinWriting and written in German – <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Please keep on posting your messages
– they are very welcome and thanks for your time and attention – <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Stefan ;-) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-align:center'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:windowtext'> owner-<st1:PersonName w:st="on">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:owner-<st1:PersonName w:st="on">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Im Auftr</span></b></span></font><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>ag von </span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'>Antony Daamen<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b> Freitag, 3. Juni 2005
07:10<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b> Re: [sw-l] Re: AUSTRALIA
Sign for Australia - black line etc</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%'>
<tr>
<td width="100%" valign=top style='width:100.0%;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>03/06/05<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>HI val and
others that are part of this discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks for
the explanation of the line. me just learning, it looked like it
was taken from above. The hands are palm-down, etc .
However, what is the view here. as if I sign it, or I watch a
person signing it?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>about this
underlining:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Is there a
need to show Deaf people what a "proper noun" is ? Until today I
didn't realise that there was a "proper noun", does that mean
there are improper nouns?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>In english
we capitalise the days of the week Monday, Tuesday etc. So are these proper
nouns? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>In Dutch we
don't capitalise the days of the week. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>So when I
learned English in Holland it was explained to me, that these have capitals.
Oh. I remembered and wrote them in capitals. In Dutch we didn't
start to write them in capitals to learn the English. We learned
that names of places in Dutch are capitals. oh. and we did that. So when I
see the sign for Australia, I know that this word has a capital first letter.
I never knew that this was a "proper noun" nor that even these
things need to be highlighted for the Deaf children. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>and on the
subject of mundbilder. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>This is
ofcourse my opinion and I realise that stefan works very hard with his Deaf
children and really loves his work, and evidently has some succes, otherwise
he wouldn't persevere.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Stefan, you
are saying that a deaf person knows what the sign is, but has to learn
the lip patterns to know the German word that relates to the sign?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Look at
these sentences:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>What is that
big loud noise?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>What is that
pig outdoors?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Same lip
patterns, different words.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>through<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>true<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>thus<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>does<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>weather<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>whether<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>wether<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>(meanings
below)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Same lip
patterns, different words.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Whether the
wethers go out in the weather depends on the weather....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I had to
learn this sentence at school.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>weather = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Noun.1. the
meteorological conditions: temperature and wind and clouds and precipitation;
"they were hoping for good weather"; "every day we have
weather conditions and yesterday was no exception"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Verb.<br>
1. face or endure with courage; "She braved the elements"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>2. cause to
slope<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>3. sail to
the windward of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>4. change
under the action or influence of the weather; "A weathered old hut"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Adjective.<br>
1. towards the side exposed to wind<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>whether = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Conjunction.
1. to offer another option, alternative ( It depends on whether we can
make it or not.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>wether = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>male sheep
(desexed)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I am sure
that you linguistics can add to this list.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>So how do
the Deaf or anybody know how to write it, if it has the same lippattern?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Here in
Australia, most Deaf are aware that one sign, can have different meanings in
English, as an English word can have different signs in Auslan. They
are also able to spell these words correctly, without mundbilder, even
without sign writing.....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Just a
suggestion: Why not explain that a sign can have the folowing different
German words, and as part of learning German and its Grammar explain where
what word is used? This would be the same as you would teach French, or
Dutch or English, Latin to either hearing or deaf students. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Maybe we can
have a look how L'epee used to do this in France (about 17 century).
HIs Deaf pupils became Teachers of the Deaf, and other educated jobs. One
of the things they had to learn was French and Latin, so he could explain the
finer points of the Roman Catholic Faith. no mundbilder, nor
signwriting then...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>L'epee and
his fellow teachers used the Language of the Deaf (Today would be called
French Sign Language) and tought the Deaf everything using their native
language. To teach French I believe he created signs for those French
words that were necessary for proper grammar(Today that would be called
Signed French). However, he only used this to teach the reading and writing
of French. For example if he quoted the bible he would sign that in
Signed French, but to explain what the passage was about,or why the French
put it this way, he would explain that in French Sign Language.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>In Australia
at last they are working on doing the same for the Deaf here: Using Auslan
intepreters/Teacher's Aids for everything, but to quote English they use Sign
English..... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I am not
critisizing your hard work, but maybe you need to give the Deaf children a
little more credit. For example my wife is Deaf and her education was
oral/aural. When she was younger she would be classed as Hearing
Impaired, other countries call this Hard of Hearing. In the teenage years her
hearing went back wards until she is now Profoundly Deaf. She did do all
right with hearing aids and lipreading at the Primary school, but it was
hopeless at the HIgh School. In the primary school there was one teacher for
the whole year and this teacher would take the time to sit next to her to
explain things one-to-one. In High school was one teacher per subject,
with no private one-to-one. Hence learning to lipread each teacher
was impossible and thus learning anything else was also not
possible. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>She knew
some Sign English, through some association with other Deaf. We got
married and together we learned Auslan. Since then her English has
improved out-of sight (=very much), as is her general knowledge
from fixing cars to politics, because I am able to explain why/what etc of
the silly English Language, which has so many letters in words that are not
spoken (through is an example, only hear "thru"), also the many
double meanings that make "hearing jokes" funny.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>We have a
Australian saying: "We are flat out as a lizard drinking".
Nearly impossible to explain to those Deaf that do not realise the many
meanings of words. "flat out" means very busy. a lizard
drinks while he is flat on the ground to reach the water. The
combination of this is the above saying.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The point I
am making is that Deaf can learn those things without going through things
like "mundbilder" or underlining "proper nouns".. I
realise you do this with the best of intentions, but I also feel that you are
"creating a rod for your own back", that is, creating more
work then is necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Antony 8-))<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div id=IncrediOriginalMessage>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><i><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:
italic'>-------Original Message-------</span></font></i><font size=2><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div id=receivestrings>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><i><font
size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>From:</span></font></i></b><font size=2><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'> <a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">Valerie
Sutton</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><i><font
size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Date:</span></font></i></b><font size=2><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'> 06/03/05 02:42:07<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><i><font
size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>To:</span></font></i></b><font size=2><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'> <a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><i><font
size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Subject:</span></font></i></b><font
size=2><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> Re: [sw-l] Re: AUSTRALIA Sign for
Australia - black line etc<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>SignWriting
List <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>June 2, 2005<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Antony
Daamen wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div><span style='border-spacing: 0px 0px;khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
apple-text-size-adjust: auto;orphans: 2;widows: 2;word-spacing:0px'>
<div type=cite>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=3 color=black face=Times><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Times;color:black'>Lucina the black line
it "the body" of the signer as seen from the top. </span></font></span><font
color=black face=Times><span style='font-family:Times;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=3 color=black face=Times><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Times;color:black'>Stefan I notice that
you draw the sign from the top? why that way? will readers of
the sign realise it is from the top? Later I will practice more.</span></font></span><font
color=black face=Times><span style='font-family:Times;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>No Antony.
That is a misunderstanding. I do not believe that Stefan was writing the
shoulders in these signs. He was underlining nouns, I believe, for his Deaf children...They
are not shoulders from the overhead view...Am I wrong, Stefan?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>None of
these signs, in Stefan's example, needs to be seen from overhead...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><img
border=0 width=598 height=325 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:image001.gif@01C5686C.D402FF10"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="100%" style='width:100.0%;padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'
id=INCREDIFOOTER>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%'>
<tr>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td width="100%" style='width:100.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'
id=INCREDISOUND>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-align:center'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt' id=INCREDIANIM>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-align:center'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="100%" valign=bottom style='width:100.0%;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%' DESIGNTIMESP=3599>
<tr>
<td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><img
border=0 width=239 height=113 id=INCREDISETASATTACH
src="cid:image002.gif@01C5686C.D402FF10" align=baseline
DESIGNTIMESP=3601><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><span
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