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<DIV><FONT size=2>Hello List,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Just for forms' sake I'd like to re-send my email sent to some
of yoi to the List now as no-one of you mind it :-).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>L.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=3>Dear Daniel, Ingivild, Shane, Val and
Kathleen,<BR><BR>Thank you for your emails and replies to the issues I have
raised. Well, you<BR>wrote to me privately, so I'll reply the same way, and in
one email to all<BR>of you.<BR><BR>Daniel:<BR>> For example, the SignWriting
list. Only the Deaf people who master English<BR>> can participate. Other
Deaf people relay their meanings through people who<BR>> can English (for
example perhaps some Polish Deaf through you?) or are<BR>> reduced to a
passive role. I prefer the Brussels Symposium. (Not that I<BR>> suggest to
abandon the list. It is very valuable, but it has limitations.<BR>>
Communication only by the list is not enough.)<BR><BR>Yes, I sometimes relay the
SignWriting List issues to other people, both <BR>deaf and hearing but I always
encourage them to subscribe the List even if <BR>they are poor at English. But
they are not interested. Perphaps, they are <BR>not interested very much in SW
or they are ashamed of not knowing English. <BR>99% of the Deaf in Poland don't
know English and many of them don't even <BR>know Polish. So, I established a
separate mailing group under the name <BR>'signlanguages' where everybody can
discuss issues regarding Deaf culture, <BR>sign languages, Deaf education and
SignWriting, all in Polish. But the group <BR>is still young and have few
participants. Most of them are hearing students <BR>who learn Polish Sign
Language and are interested in SignWriting. If I know <BR>how I can help them, I
write and explain their problems and I encourage them <BR>to enter new signs in
the Polish SignPuddle, and if they make errors, I <BR>correct the signs and,
whenever I have time, I explain the errors to them. <BR>And if I don't know how
to help them, I ask you on the SW List :-). But now <BR>in the Summer I have
limited access to Internet and I can't do too much on <BR>it, unfortunately. I
use the Internet in cafes now. But in September I'll <BR>have a broadband
connection at home back.<BR><BR>Val:<BR>>You are right that if we use the
SignWriting List, that can possibly <BR>>exclude Deaf people who do not know
spoken languages. Now, if the <BR>>SignWriting List members chose to post
their email written in SignWriting, <BR>>that would be
different.<BR><BR>Sure, but that's not so simple. Well, Romuald Szurik can't
write in English <BR>and, let's say, you'll write an ASL message to him. He
won't understand it <BR>either even if he knows the basics of SW (and he really
does!)<BR>I was 4 years old when I learnt how to write and read in Polish and 8
when I <BR>learnt how to read and write in Russian, so I'm fluent in writing in
<BR>languages that use the Latin and the Cirillic alphabets. But I will never be
<BR>as fluent in SignWriting. At least not in 5 years.<BR>But despite of that I
learn how to use SW in order to teach others who would <BR>use it in the Deaf
education. Deaf children, taught in SW from the beginning <BR>of their school
education, will be true fluent SignWriters and the true <BR>beneficiaries of
SignWriting.<BR><BR>Shane:<BR>>European Signs (International Signs) was like
"wow! What's that? I<BR>cant follow it!" - i do understand how you feel - at
that time, my<BR>NISL wasn't great because of my education at Boston Spa being
oral.<BR>But 10 years into my NISL proper, its as if NISL is always my
first<BR>language but when I was 17, NISL wasn't my first
language...<BR><BR>Good that you understand how I felt.<BR>My first language is
Polish but when I was 20 (now I'm 30), I get into the <BR>Deaf community and I
learnt PJM very quickly, just watching the Deaf sign <BR>and communicating with
them. So I didn't deal with Signed Polish (System <BR>Jezykowo-Migowy, SJM). I
have even worked in a local circle of the Polish <BR>Association of the Deaf for
a year and I took to PJM like a duck to water at <BR>that time, but afterwards I
worked at home only (in Tarnow), as a <BR>translator, I rarely met other people,
either the hearing or the Deaf and <BR>when I came to Warsaw two years ago to
start my PhD studies, I could hardly <BR>speak and sign. I understood then how
important it was to be able to speak. <BR>Signing is not as important as no one
will understand your sign when at <BR>shopping, at a doctor's, in public offices
and so on. But now, after the two <BR>years of more frequent direct contact with
people I can speak and sign as <BR>easily as I just used to :-).<BR><BR>Shane, I
can't find your email now, in which you said I (or the Polish <BR>Deaf?) tend to
use Signed Polish rather than PJM. No, I did not said <BR>anything like that to
you or others.<BR>I want to say that SJM is commonly used in schools for the
Deaf in Poland <BR>and by Polish sign languages interpreters. PJM is used in one
school for the <BR>Deaf in Warsaw - Instytut Gluchoniemych (Institute of the
Deaf Mute). PJM is <BR>also researched at the University of Warsaw and at the
Warmian and Mazurian <BR>University of Olsztyn. PJM is taught to hearing
students at the University <BR>of Olsztyn and at the Catholic University of
Lublin.<BR>As you know, I'm not a native signer but I'm far from signing SJM.
But it is <BR>to said that PJM has been influenced by SJM and Polish for years,
and now, <BR>when we do research on deafroot PJM signers, we discover those
impacts and <BR>loan words. For example, most Deaf signers use a sign order like
this:<BR><BR>SHE GIRL PRETTY<BR>She's a pretty girl<BR><BR>But more and more
native signers use the order that follows the Polish <BR>grammar:<BR><BR>SHE
PRETTY GIRL<BR><BR>One can say it's SJM, not PJM. But I don't agree. Many Deaf
sign this way <BR>now and I think it's just the linguistic development of
PJM.<BR><BR>If you all don't mind, I'll send this email to the List
too.<BR><BR>With very Polish greetings,<BR>Lucy :-)</FONT><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>GG 3618151 SMS +48505273292 MSN <A
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