<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">SignWriting List<DIV>August 19, 2005</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Yes, I do agree that brush and rub need arrows more than other contact stars...and Brush-Brush alone does not tell you the direction...But there was a day when people wrote arrows down-down for touch-touch...but we learned through experience that the arrows were not necessary...so Brush-Brush might evolve into something that people can read - perhaps a part of the more similified writing for informed readers...I was just trying to explain why I would not have two in-between symbols, that's all! All of these writing conventions develop over time...I suspect for the sign for SKOLA that the inbetween alone, with the arm and shoulders, would be read too! How many signs are under the armpit? smile...if there are a lot then you would have to have the arrows to read it...smile...never mind...let me get back to the circles lesson...I will be teaching NEW symbols for SignWriting...but some of the oldest symbols in the entire writing system...circles for the shoulder or hips...plus elbows/knees and wrist/ankles...smile...So look for the lesson tomorrow...Val ;-)</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Aug 19, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Stefan W๖hrmann wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Geneva; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><O:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"><DIV class="Section1"><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy; color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-size: 13.3333px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; ">Ha Valerie I do not agree smile </SPAN><O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy; color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-size: 13.3333px; "><O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy; color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-size: 13.3333px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; "></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang="EN-GB"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">So Nana's name sign could be written with two brushes and no arrows,...</SPAN><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">well I bet that this is possible ( smile) but brush needs an arrow because otherwise you are not informed brush yes ok. but what direction? down, forward, up ...</SPAN><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">You agree ?</SPAN><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">Stefan ;-))</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy; color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-size: 13.3333px; "><O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><SPAN lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy; color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-size: 13.3333px; "><O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><DIV><DIV class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; text-align: center; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; text-align: center; "></SPAN><HR size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><B style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold; "><FONT size="2" face="Tahoma"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold; font-size: 13.3333px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; font-weight: bold; ">Von:</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size="2" face="Tahoma"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "> owner-</SPAN><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><A href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</A></SPAN></ST1:PERSONNAME><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "> [<A href="mailto:owner-">mailto:owner-</A></SPAN><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><A href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</A></SPAN></ST1:PERSONNAME><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; ">] </SPAN><B style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; font-weight: bold; "><SPAN style="font-weight:bold; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; font-weight: bold; ">Im Auftrag von </SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; ">Valerie Sutton</SPAN><BR style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><B style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; font-weight: bold; "><SPAN style="font-weight:bold; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; font-weight: bold; ">Gesendet:</SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "> Freitag, 19. August 2005 19:34</SPAN><BR style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><B style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; font-weight: bold; "><SPAN style="font-weight:bold; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; font-weight: bold; ">An:</SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "> </SPAN><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><A href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</A></SPAN></ST1:PERSONNAME><BR style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><B style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; font-weight: bold; "><SPAN style="font-weight:bold; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; font-weight: bold; ">Betreff:</SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px; "> Re: [sw-l] in-between</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></P></DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">SignWriting List</SPAN><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">August 19, 2005</SPAN><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><BLOCKQUOTE style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 221); " type="cite"><DIV style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); "><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 221); font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">On Aug 19, 2005, at 10:17 AM, Charles Butler wrote:</SPAN><O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><BLOCKQUOTE style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt; color: rgb(0, 99, 18); " type="cite"><DIV style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="#0000dd" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#0000DD; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">From the video, the movement itself goes into the armpit three times.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><O:P style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></P></DIV><DIV style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); "><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" color="#0000dd" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#0000DD; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 221); font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">That would be in-between 3 times to me.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><O:P style="color: rgb(0, 99, 18); font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">I wasn't able to see the video...It was in a format I am not setup for at the moment...</SPAN><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">But regarding writing so many symbols....that is a lot of detail for everyday use...I really think a simpler spelling should be found for the sign for SCHOOL, which is a commonly written sign...I would think one in-between would be enough for reading the sign quickly for those who already know the sign...</SPAN><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">I personally only use the double-inbetweens when there are no other movement symbols involved...imagine if you wanted to show inbetween-inbetween but with no other movement arrow...then the doubles are useful...but when you have movement arrows involved anyway, one inbetween is enough for reading for everyday use...because the double arrows take care of the double movement, and it is assumed that both movements come from an in-between...</SPAN><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">Same thing for double brushes, versus single brushes...like with Nana's name sign...why write two brush symbols and two arrows, when one brush with two arrows still gives the same information? So Nana's name sign could be written with two brushes and no arrows, or one brush and two arrows, but why two brushes and two arrows?...That is too much information for a sign that you write everyday at the end of letters written by hand to friends! It gets discouraging to write by hand, with so much detail... (see number 2 in the attached)...It is not that either is wrong, it is just a hope that we can simplify spellings a little....</SPAN><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><SPAN><DIV><image001.jpg></DIV></SPAN><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></O:SMARTTAGTYPE><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Geneva; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Geneva; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Val ;-)</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>Valerie Sutton</DIV><DIV><A href="mailto:Sutton@SignWriting.org">Sutton@SignWriting.org</A></DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>1. SignWritingSite</DIV><DIV><A href="http://www.SignWriting.org">http://www.SignWriting.org</A></DIV><DIV>Read & Write Sign Languages</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>2. SignBankSite</DIV><DIV><A href="http://www.SignBank.org">http://www.SignBank.org</A></DIV><DIV>Sign Language Dictionaries</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>