<html><div style='background-color:'><P>I personally think that it is a little to early for standardized spelling like english is because English became standardized after several generations. I would have thought that we should have standardization until Stefan sent me some emails with various ASL sentences. He took them from videos that are online. There were a lot of things that he choose to write that I would have never thought of but realized that it was needed. Now my thinking is that sign spellings will become standardized on their own in time as it becomes used more and more. I think that the dictionary (online SignPuddle) should be a place for discussion of how to spell signs and a place to store signspellings so that if you have "spelling block" you can look and see how others spell it --just as it is now. True, it would be great to have signspell checkers. But I agree with Val, we have crawled; let's walk before we run. :-)</P>
<P>Just my 2<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>¢</FONT></P>
<P>Adam<BR></P>
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From: <I>"Bill Reese" <wreese01@TAMPABAY.RR.COM></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</I><BR>To: <I>sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: [sw-l] length limit</I><BR>Date: <I>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 20:41:05 -0500</I><BR><BR>
<META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator>Cherie, <BR><BR>I'm not an expert at this but I don't think standardized spelling needs to be thought of as a dumbed down version. If, like you say "drive" can be modified by an adverb, the tongue and head positions, then that very thing can be included - that there are adverbs, adjectives, etc, that can be used to add additional meaning. Perhaps, rather than include the head/tongue position in the sign for "drive", it could come either before or after it.<BR><BR>This could lead to a completely different way of looking at some parts of a sign - that they could be separated out according to the parts of speech they represent. Thus, some head, body and, perhaps, hand positions could be presented separate from the sign they modify.<BR><BR>Bill<BR><BR><BR>Cherie Wren wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid20060207005906.30156.qmail@web31812.mail.mud.yahoo.com><PRE>Once you institute standardized spellings, you lose a
lot of the variability that is inherent in sign
language: unless you come up with a way to include
all the 'inflections' possible for each sign...
Because so much information is carried in the head and
body movements... but then again, written English
can't convey the 'tone of voice' and lots of the
emotional meaning. I am thinking of all the TeachASL
folks who want to challenge everything--- "well, can
you write THIS?" As of right now, we can, but if we
go to standardized spellings, some of that would go
away, except in the research version...
English has relatively standard spellings, because
there are relatively standard pronounciations... You
say the word 'fly' the same, whether you mean an icky
bug; getting on a plane, terrified; getting on a
plane, eagerly; or RUN AWAY! In Sign, If I use a
different facial expression, I change the meaning of
what I sign. Facial Adverbs for example... If I sign
'drive' with my tongue sticking out and my head cocked
to the side a little bit, that changes the meaning to
'drive carelessly.' How would standardized spellings
incorporate things like that?
Does that make sense?
cherie
--- Valerie Sutton <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"><sutton@signwriting.org></A> wrote:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>Hi Charles and Everyone -
Although a spell checker would be great in the
future, to do that, we
would have to have a dictionary that doesn't
change...right now the
Community SignPuddles are places for people to
experiment with how to
write, so we have many versions of the same sign
because it is a
practice place...
To get a spell checker to work, it would have to
access a dictionary
that is stable and not changing...it implies that
there are
standardized spellings...This new SignText is more
like the old
typewriters that were not computers...There were no
spell checkers on
a basic typewriter before...but people could still
compose a nice
document...so I guess we have to walk before we can
run!
All this will come in time....we just need to give
it more than a
week - ha!
And SignText is not just for email...it is more for
creating
sentences as diagrams for Word documents etc...so it
is a useful tool
that will evolve and be used in many different
ways...I find it quite
fast to drag and drop symbols and create signs with
the proper facial
expressions...When we access a dictionary we have a
problem, because
the dictionary cannot have the facial expressions
that are proper for
a sign in a certain position in the sentence...so
dictionaries
accessed for spell checkers in English may be a
little simpler, but
ASL has fluctuating facial expressions...
Val ;-)
-----------
On Feb 6, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Charles Butler wrote:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>I guess I'm looking for a "spell checker" feature
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>so that when I'm
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>typing directly, I dont' have to reinvent the
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>wheel when I'm not
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>sure how to spell something.
Charles
Valerie Sutton <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"><sutton@signwriting.org></A> wrote:
Hello Charles!
Exactly! Cherie and Ingvild wrote email in
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>sentences with
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>Lanes...without any need for a word gloss...This
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>changes the
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>experience of writing email in SignWriting,
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>because now we are
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>getting to real Sign Language grammar
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>issues...writing directly in
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>the movements of signed languages, with no spoken
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>language
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>involved...and that is really great...The other
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>email program in
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>SignPuddle is still there to use, but it had been
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>criticized by
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>those who do not want to use glosses to write
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>signed languages, so
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>now we have both for all kinds of people!
Actually Steve did develop a way to access the
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>SignPuddle
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>dictionary, while composing in SignText, but since
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>SignText just
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>was released in this new version, less than a week
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>ago, I have not
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>had the chance to write the manual yet...
Steve - Can you teach everyone how to use
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>SignPuddle to get some
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>signs into a SignText sentence?...
Frankly, I hope that most people will compose each
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>sign directly in
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>SignText without thinking in glosses...that is the
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>whole point of
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>SignText...
And, SignPuddle already has a way to search for
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>signs with
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>different handshapes...but not related to email.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>When we type email
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>in English we do not search for words in a
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>dictionary...we type
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>directly, and that is what SignText gives us...so
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>there are
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>different programs for different purposes...
Amazing isn't it?...smile...
Want to try it? Go to:
SignText
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://signbank.org/signpuddle/signtext/signtext.html">http://signbank.org/signpuddle/signtext/signtext.html</A>
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>Val ;-)
PS. What is the difference between SignPuddle,
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>SignBank, and SignText?
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>SignPuddle...Create signs online, add them to a
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>dictionary, search
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>the dictionary, send email using glosses
SignText...Create Sign-Sentences and
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>Sign-Documents online or
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>offline, send email, no glosses involved!
SignBank...Create, Print, Search and Publish
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>Multi-Lingual Sign
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>Language Databases...SignBank can be used to print
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>thick
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>dictionaries....like a websters
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>dictionary...easily and
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>automatically, once the database is filled with
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>signs...
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>Both SignText and SignWriter are ways to create
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>documents...
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>Val ;-)
Valerie Sutton
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:Sutton@SignWriting.org">Sutton@SignWriting.org</A>
Tech support by voice or video...
Make an appointment by email ;-)
1. SignWriting
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.signwriting.org/">http://www.SignWriting.org</A>
Read & Write Sign Languages
2. SignBank
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.signbank.org/">http://www.SignBank.org</A>
Sign Language Databases
3. SignPuddle
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle">http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle</A>
Create & Share Signs Online & Offline
4. MovementWriting
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.movementwriting.org/">http://www.MovementWriting.org</A>
Read & Write All Body Movement
SignWriting Literacy Project
The DAC, Deaf Action Committee
Center For Sutton Movement Writing
an educational nonprofit organization
Box 517, La Jolla, CA, 92038, USA
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