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Cherie, <br>
<br>
I'm not an expert at this but I don't think standardized spelling needs
to be thought of as a dumbed down version. If, like you say "drive"
can be modified by an adverb, the tongue and head positions, then that
very thing can be included - that there are adverbs, adjectives, etc,
that can be used to add additional meaning. Perhaps, rather than
include the head/tongue position in the sign for "drive", it could come
either before or after it.<br>
<br>
This could lead to a completely different way of looking at some parts
of a sign - that they could be separated out according to the parts of
speech they represent. Thus, some head, body and, perhaps, hand
positions could be presented separate from the sign they modify.<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
<br>
Cherie Wren wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20060207005906.30156.qmail@web31812.mail.mud.yahoo.com">
<pre wrap="">Once you institute standardized spellings, you lose a
lot of the variability that is inherent in sign
language: unless you come up with a way to include
all the 'inflections' possible for each sign...
Because so much information is carried in the head and
body movements... but then again, written English
can't convey the 'tone of voice' and lots of the
emotional meaning. I am thinking of all the TeachASL
folks who want to challenge everything--- "well, can
you write THIS?" As of right now, we can, but if we
go to standardized spellings, some of that would go
away, except in the research version...
English has relatively standard spellings, because
there are relatively standard pronounciations... You
say the word 'fly' the same, whether you mean an icky
bug; getting on a plane, terrified; getting on a
plane, eagerly; or RUN AWAY! In Sign, If I use a
different facial expression, I change the meaning of
what I sign. Facial Adverbs for example... If I sign
'drive' with my tongue sticking out and my head cocked
to the side a little bit, that changes the meaning to
'drive carelessly.' How would standardized spellings
incorporate things like that?
Does that make sense?
cherie
--- Valerie Sutton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"><sutton@signwriting.org></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Charles and Everyone -
Although a spell checker would be great in the
future, to do that, we
would have to have a dictionary that doesn't
change...right now the
Community SignPuddles are places for people to
experiment with how to
write, so we have many versions of the same sign
because it is a
practice place...
To get a spell checker to work, it would have to
access a dictionary
that is stable and not changing...it implies that
there are
standardized spellings...This new SignText is more
like the old
typewriters that were not computers...There were no
spell checkers on
a basic typewriter before...but people could still
compose a nice
document...so I guess we have to walk before we can
run!
All this will come in time....we just need to give
it more than a
week - ha!
And SignText is not just for email...it is more for
creating
sentences as diagrams for Word documents etc...so it
is a useful tool
that will evolve and be used in many different
ways...I find it quite
fast to drag and drop symbols and create signs with
the proper facial
expressions...When we access a dictionary we have a
problem, because
the dictionary cannot have the facial expressions
that are proper for
a sign in a certain position in the sentence...so
dictionaries
accessed for spell checkers in English may be a
little simpler, but
ASL has fluctuating facial expressions...
Val ;-)
-----------
On Feb 6, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Charles Butler wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I guess I'm looking for a "spell checker" feature
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">so that when I'm
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">typing directly, I dont' have to reinvent the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">wheel when I'm not
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">sure how to spell something.
Charles
Valerie Sutton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"><sutton@signwriting.org></a> wrote:
Hello Charles!
Exactly! Cherie and Ingvild wrote email in
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">sentences with
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Lanes...without any need for a word gloss...This
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">changes the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">experience of writing email in SignWriting,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">because now we are
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">getting to real Sign Language grammar
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">issues...writing directly in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the movements of signed languages, with no spoken
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">language
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">involved...and that is really great...The other
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">email program in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">SignPuddle is still there to use, but it had been
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">criticized by
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">those who do not want to use glosses to write
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">signed languages, so
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">now we have both for all kinds of people!
Actually Steve did develop a way to access the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">SignPuddle
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">dictionary, while composing in SignText, but since
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">SignText just
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">was released in this new version, less than a week
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">ago, I have not
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">had the chance to write the manual yet...
Steve - Can you teach everyone how to use
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">SignPuddle to get some
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">signs into a SignText sentence?...
Frankly, I hope that most people will compose each
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">sign directly in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">SignText without thinking in glosses...that is the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">whole point of
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">SignText...
And, SignPuddle already has a way to search for
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">signs with
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">different handshapes...but not related to email.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">When we type email
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">in English we do not search for words in a
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">dictionary...we type
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">directly, and that is what SignText gives us...so
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">there are
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">different programs for different purposes...
Amazing isn't it?...smile...
Want to try it? Go to:
SignText
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://signbank.org/signpuddle/signtext/signtext.html">http://signbank.org/signpuddle/signtext/signtext.html</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Val ;-)
PS. What is the difference between SignPuddle,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">SignBank, and SignText?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">SignPuddle...Create signs online, add them to a
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">dictionary, search
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the dictionary, send email using glosses
SignText...Create Sign-Sentences and
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Sign-Documents online or
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">offline, send email, no glosses involved!
SignBank...Create, Print, Search and Publish
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Multi-Lingual Sign
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Language Databases...SignBank can be used to print
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">thick
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">dictionaries....like a websters
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">dictionary...easily and
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">automatically, once the database is filled with
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">signs...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Both SignText and SignWriter are ways to create
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">documents...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Val ;-)
Valerie Sutton
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Sutton@SignWriting.org">Sutton@SignWriting.org</a>
Tech support by voice or video...
Make an appointment by email ;-)
1. SignWriting
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.SignWriting.org">http://www.SignWriting.org</a>
Read & Write Sign Languages
2. SignBank
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.SignBank.org">http://www.SignBank.org</a>
Sign Language Databases
3. SignPuddle
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle">http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle</a>
Create & Share Signs Online & Offline
4. MovementWriting
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.MovementWriting.org">http://www.MovementWriting.org</a>
Read & Write All Body Movement
SignWriting Literacy Project
The DAC, Deaf Action Committee
Center For Sutton Movement Writing
an educational nonprofit organization
Box 517, La Jolla, CA, 92038, USA
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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