<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier">If a teacher with ASL background
wants his/her students to<br>
translate/understand the two sentences - <br>
<br>
The ship is blue. The boat is white.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I don't teach Deaf children, but I work
in a school that does, so let me take a stab at this. First off,
what is the goal of the teacher? Teaching vocabulary would have to
come first. At that point, you might show pictures of a ship and
a boat, preferably side by side to show the size difference. ASL
does not differentiate the two, except perhaps with mouthing of the English
words if the teacher is using Signed English. Signed Exact English
probably uses a different sign, but that system is becoming less common,
thank goodness. The other way ASL might differentiate the two words
could be with ASL "non-manuals", that is to say facial expressions.
IF you sign BOAT, and mouth "Cha," that means in ASL "really
big boat" or ship... if you sign boat and mouth "mmm"
that means regular size boat. If you sign boat and mouth 'oo"
that means small/tiny boat. The hands are signing the same thing
throughout, but the different non-manuals change the meaning. If
the teacher is just talking about a picture or a story and assumes the
children already know the vocabulary, then she might or might not need
to differentiate. If we're talking about two different things, its
easiest to set them up in space... The boat would be placed to one
side of the signer, the ship on the other side, then talk about them. That
would be done with the lanes in SW. If of, course, we are doing some
sort of English based test, and the difference between those two words
is critical, then I would probably spell them. The are both short
easy words to spell...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">My husband was in the Navy and they
used the words boat and ship pretty much interchangeably... He was
on an aircraft carrier, so no way would that be misconstrued as a 'boat',
but they often talked about which 'boat' they were on... Of course,
if =I= said 'boat, I would be corrected most adamantly that it was a ship,
but THEY could call them boats... ::smile::</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
---------------------------------<br>
Cherie Wren<br>
GSD Staff Interpreter<br>
232 Perry Farm Rd<br>
Cave Spring, GA 30124<br>
706-777-2328<br>
706-766-0766 Cell<br>
<br>
This message and any included attachments are from the Georgia School for
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you have received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately,
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>"Stefan Wöhrmann"
<stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE></b> </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">02/26/2006 06:42 AM</font>
<table border>
<tr valign=top>
<td bgcolor=white>
<div align=center><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to<br>
sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</font></div></table>
<br>
<td width=59%>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">AW: [sw-l] Writing mouthing of words
with SSW</font></table>
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<table>
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<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2><tt>Hi Valerie, Erica, Cherie and friends, <br>
<br>
I am so sorry - but somehow it is difficult to explain - because of the
two<br>
complete different systems - but similar terminology. <br>
<br>
<br>
Let us forget about "Mundbildschrift" within the context of SW
!! <br>
<br>
I agree that within the context of SignWriting this is what I do: <br>
<br>
I look at the mouth of the signer and try to describe what I see with the<br>
symbols from Your IMWA symbol set. <br>
<br>
Besides voiceless articulation we observe mouth gesture as well a great
deal<br>
and I agree that that part is very important in DGS as well. <br>
<br>
There has been a severe and pretty heated discussion about this aspect
of<br>
"voiceless articulation". I do not want to open that can of worms
again. <br>
<br>
<br>
The step aside - smile- is that I made some decisions that had not been
made<br>
before. <br>
<br>
With my pre-knowledge of German Language and German Sign Language I can
make<br>
different observations /interpretations of what is being performed. <br>
<br>
Since this voiceless mouthing is a part of some SL performances (smile)<br>
in some SL of the world it should be important to find a way to document<br>
these information. <br>
<br>
Without knowing the spoken language of that given country it might be<br>
difficult or even impossible to capture the important aspects of this<br>
performance. <br>
<br>
But as an informed observer there is now a possibility to provide at least<br>
that bit of information that allows the reader to understand the written<br>
document without any doubts. <br>
<br>
<br>
If you compare the SW spelling for ship and boat in the US - puddle - you<br>
find no difference. <br>
<br>
If a teacher with ASL background wants his/her students to<br>
translate/understand the two sentences - <br>
<br>
The ship is blue. The boat is white.<br>
<br>
What would they write? How do they know that the nouns are different? <br>
<br>
<br>
All the best <br>
<br>
Stefan ;-)) <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>
Von: owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br>
[mailto:owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 25. Februar 2006 19:42<br>
An: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br>
Betreff: [sw-l] Writing mouthing of words with SSW<br>
<br>
SignWriting List<br>
February 25, 2006<br>
<br>
Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:<br>
<br>
> Valerie - I think it is very important to understand the difference
<br>
> between<br>
> "Mundbildschrift" and Mundbilder in SignWriting /GebaerdenSchrift)<br>
<br>
Perhaps I get the German terminology incorrect...I am sorry!<br>
<br>
Mundbilder is what I call SignWriting Facial Expressions, I guess! It <br>
is funny because we never created a term specifically for the facial <br>
expressions used in the grammar of signed languages...they are simply <br>
SignWriting symbols that are applied by the writer to write that, if <br>
they wish...<br>
<br>
Mundbildschrift is what I used to call SpeechWriting, years ago, <br>
writing the movements of speech specifically...not involved with any <br>
signed language at all... but of course Mundbildschrift is your <br>
invention, Stefan, when specified for writing German speech...<br>
<br>
What is so fascinating about your work, Stefan, is that you have <br>
actually used Mundbildschrift combined with the writing of basic <br>
signs in DGS, haven't you at times? Giving the Deaf students the <br>
mouthing of the words plus the basic signs...which is different than <br>
a Deaf person signing to another Deaf person, when some of the mouth <br>
movements change to reflect the grammar of the signed language and <br>
have little or no connection with the speech of the spoken language <br>
in the country...<br>
<br>
Here in the US there are some Deaf people who mouth words when they <br>
sign with hearing people, but when they sign with other Deaf people <br>
and the hearing people leave the room, their mouth movements change <br>
from mouthing speech to the Deaf facial expressions necessary for ASL <br>
grammar...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> Love to read more messages about this problem. I understand that <br>
> some or the<br>
> majority of ASL - signers do not use these lip-movement <br>
> information ...<br>
<br>
<br>
This is a little complicated, but we did some research on this when I <br>
worked with around 10 Deaf people, called the DAC, or Deaf Action <br>
Committee years ago...Kevin Clark is born several generations Deaf, <br>
and obviously so was his sister, Darline (grin)...but they are two <br>
very different kind of signers when it comes to mouthing words...<br>
<br>
Kevin has literally no hearing at all and cannot use hearing aids <br>
because the nature of his deafness...this means that sound is really <br>
not a part of his world. His Deaf sister Darline would be completely <br>
deaf without a hearing aid, but with a hearing aid she has some sound <br>
coming in...<br>
<br>
The difference is night and day, when it comes to mouthing <br>
words...Darline mouths some, but Kevin simply does not...They are <br>
both strong ASL people, but there is a difference the way they use <br>
mouthing...and what is really important here is that Kevin is totally <br>
understood clearly, without the mouthing of spoken language, for <br>
anyone who knows ASL...so the mouthing is NOT essential for <br>
understanding ASL...but certain ASL facial expressions ARE essential <br>
for understanding ASL grammar...<br>
<br>
So that is why we do not write as much mouthing in our ASL <br>
SignPuddle, as you have in your German SignPuddle...the facial <br>
expressions specific to true ASL change, depending on their placement <br>
in a sentence, and so to place that in the dictionary is hard, <br>
because there is not one facial expression that it always connected <br>
with each ASL sign...and we know that mouthing the English word is <br>
not necessary, in fact, it can hinder the reading of ASL grammar...<br>
<br>
So you are right to separate the writing of mouthing and the writing <br>
of grammatical facial expressions...we need better terms in English <br>
for this! You have terms in German...smile...<br>
<br>
Congratulations on your great work!<br>
<br>
<br>
Val ;-)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</tt></font>
<br>