<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">SignWriting List<DIV>April 15, 2006<DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>Steve Slevinski wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">I disagree that the ASL sign for "deaf" is simple to write. There are several varying standards to use when writing it and there are issues with sorting....</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Hello Steve, Stuart and everyone!</DIV><DIV>This is a very important conversation...and I can explain what is happening here...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Steve, you are right that if you look at our messy writings and experimentations with spellings in SignPuddle, and if as a programmer, you are working with creating a computer program that sorts by SignSymbolSequence (SSS) and establishes SignSpelling Sequences, and the spelling you are trying to sort is a mess and needs to be cleaned - well that is not easy, that is for sure...from a programming point of view!</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>But nonetheless, Stuart is right in another way...for all of the inconsistencies in our not-so-perfect spellings of that sign, most people read that sign immediately with little or no training...so the difference here is to define what we mean by EASY and USER...are they reading quickly, are they writing it themselves, or are they programming signspellings...all those users would look at that sign quite differently</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Stuart, I assume that for your study we need to see it through YOUR eyes...a skilled signwriter and a skilled signer who is Deaf or perhaps others who are in contact with Deaf people and really are skilled signers...is that right?</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Let me go into SignPuddle right now, and I will clean up those spellings of Deaf and then I will post them to the List and explain the different ways we can correctly write that sign within the general rules of SignWriting...you will find that it can be a little cleaner...although SignSpellings are not completely standardized yet, there are certain choices...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thanks to you both for your great messages!</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "></SPAN></SPAN><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Val ;-)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; ; font-size: 12px; "><BR style="font-size: 12px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; ; font-size: 12px; "><BR style="font-size: 12px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Valerie Sutton</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><A href="mailto:Sutton@SignWriting.org">Sutton@SignWriting.org</A></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; ; font-size: 12px; "><BR style="font-size: 12px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">1. SignWriting</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Read & Write Sign Languages</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><A href="http://www.SignWriting.org">http://www.SignWriting.org</A></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; ; font-size: 12px; "><BR style="font-size: 12px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">2. SignBank</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Create Sign Language Databases</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><A href="http://www.SignBank.org">http://www.SignBank.org</A></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; ; font-size: 12px; "><BR style="font-size: 12px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">3. SignPuddle</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Create Sign Language Dictionaries</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><A href="http://www.SignPuddle.org">http://www.SignPuddle.org</A></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; ; font-size: 12px; "><BR style="font-size: 12px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">4. SignText</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Create Sign Language Documents</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><A href="http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle/signtext">http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle/signtext</A></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; ; font-size: 12px; "><BR style="font-size: 12px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">5. DanceWriting</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Read & Write Dance Movement</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><A href="http://www.DanceWriting.org">http://www.DanceWriting.org</A></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; ; font-size: 12px; "><BR style="font-size: 12px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">6. MovementWriting</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Read & Write All Body Movement</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><A href="http://www.MovementWriting.org">http://www.MovementWriting.org</A></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial; min-height: 14px; ; font-size: 12px; "><BR style="font-size: 12px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">SignWriting Literacy Project</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">The DAC, Deaf Action Committee</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Center For Sutton Movement Writing</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">an educational nonprofit organization</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">P.O. Box 517, La Jolla, CA, 92038, USA</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">tel 858-456-0098 fax 858-456-0020</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">D-Link Videophone: 66.27.57.178</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>