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Andree, <br>
<br>
Clearly I did not understand your initial posting and I take
responsibility for reading into it things that were not there. Thank
you for your kind clarification. <br>
<br>
Your interest seems to be in line with what we 'generally' consider the
'natural' order for literacy with hearing children - i.e. learn to read
and write the language they speak. In your pedagogical framework, we
would do the same thing for Deaf children who would learn to read and
write the language they sign. My response is YES!!!<br>
<br>
odeeodee<br>
<br>
<br>
Andrée Gagnon wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid000301c6ed99$e5ad8010$0300a8c0@ANDRE2" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Barbara,
Please find below the answer to your three questions.
1) QSL ( Quebec Sign Language) is the English translation of LSQ
(Langue des signes québécoise). Shane is right. LSQ is different from ASL.
The LSQ is used in Quebec, in Ontario and in New-Brunswick by
French-speaking Deaf community. According to the Canadian Association of
the Deaf, the population of Deaf Canadians using ASL is approximately
300,000. The Association does not have statistics regarding LSQ users, but
approximately 6,000-10,000 might be a good guess.
2) Of course, ASL curriculum from kindergarten to grade 12 exists in
the province of Ontario, but, LSQ curriculum does not. Even though Bill 4
(law of education in Ontario, 1993)recognizes ASL and LSQ as instruction
language, the French –speaking group has to fight for obtaining approval of
LSQ curriculum from kindergarten to grade 12.
ASL curriculum does not include Sign Writing. You ask me why I propose
written LSQ as first language. At first, I give you an example of an untrue
situation. You imagine that the teacher uses only spoken French as first
language and written French does not exist. But, he/she uses only written
English and spoken English does not exist. You imagine that hearing
children can acquire to listen spoken French and to read written English:
Spoken French Written English
eau (o) water
chapeau (o) hat
peau (o) skin
château (o) castle
beau (o) beautiful
In your opinion is it possible to acquire a language in this manner?
It is not easy to answer this question.
To parallel: the teacher uses LSQ and written LSQ does not exist.
He/she uses spoken French and written French. Deaf children cannot hear
spoken French. LSQ and written French are doubled discontinuity.
According to the theory of linguistic interdependency, LSQ can share the
same language as written LSQ. Deaf children can acquire to read the same
language ( LSQ-written LSQ). Deaf children have their knowledge as first
language. Then, they may acquire the written French as second language by
transferring and comparing the written LSQ and written French because deaf
children can observe, analyse and think based on biliteracy. Kegl points
out that Deaf children (non-signers) need to develop fluency first. Then,
they can read a written LSQ or Sign Writing. Why not write.
3) Yes, the provincial school is called Centre Jules Léger in Ottawa.
Deaf French-Ontarian children learn LSQ and French language. I figure out
that the population of Deaf LSQ in Ontario is around 200-300. Do not forget
that French-speaking parents want his/her Deaf children to learn French
language in a school near their home. There are ASL and English provincial
school in Ontario ( Milton, London and Bellevue) where deaf children can go.
According to RESO (deaf child of French=speaking hearing parent), for
example, the provincial school in Bellevue has many French-speaking Deaf
children who have to learn ASL and English language because parents want
them near their home.
In addition, can you imagine people using spoken language only without
written form for many many years and may now consider creating symbols to
learn to write. Why Deaf people who have their sign language, could not
acquire a written form? Now, they can create a new written sign language.
It is not so easy that the society changes in the evolution of the man.
James, Shane, Charles, Val thank you very much for your answer.
WAVE HAND
André Thibeaul
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">mailto:owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>] On Behalf Of Shane Gilchrist O
hEorpa
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 7:39 AM
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>
Subject: Re: [sw-l] SW curriculum
Barbara,
QSL is LSQ - same thing :-)
Andree,
I am very interested in how French Canadians see LSQ (QSL) as a
seperate language from ASL. Any research done on that? I am trying to
argue the same thing for NISL, that it is a different language from
BSL.
Shane
On 07/10/06, Barbara O'Dea <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:odeab@unm.edu"><odeab@unm.edu></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> Andree,
For clarification, would you mind responding to a couple of questions?
1. I know that ASL is used throughout Canada and both ASL and LSQ are
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->used
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">in Quebec. Would you tell us what QSL is and where it is used? Also,
approximately what proportion of the Canadian Deaf community uses this
language?
2. I am curious as to why you are proposing to introduce written QSL as a
"first language" curriculum in the province of Ontario. What are you
expecting to do with ASL, the existing predominant language of the Deaf
community there?
3. You mentioned the Deaf school in Ottawa. Does the Deaf community in
Ottawa use QSL?
I don't want to jump to conclusions and I''m sure I must have
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->misunderstood
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">something in your description because what I understand (or misunderstand)
is akin to a group of educators in the hearing school system deciding the
English-speaking community in Ontario should no longer use English and the
students should be educated in some other language which is not generally
used in the community, developing a curriculum for that language, and
proposing it to the Ontario government.
I must be missing something and I sure would appreciate if you would give
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->a
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">further clarification of what you are proposing.
odeeodee
Andrée Gagnon wrote:
Dear SW members,
Because I feel that Val really ought to know who I am, what I do and
why I wish to establish contact with the SW members, please find below my
message.
Firstly, I will introduce myself. I am deafblind. I attended the
Deaf school in Québec city ( Canada) and I grew up in their dormitory. I
use Quebec Sign Language ( QSL). Since 1998, I am professor in the
Department of Education at the University of Ottawa
( Ottawa is the capital of Canada). I have been teaching six different
courses ( literacy and deafness: development of writing and reading for
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->deaf
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">students. The students can obtain a certificate of deaf education in
Ontario, Canada.
At the Deaf school in Ottawa, a project called " Fais-moi signe" ( in
English, " Make me a sign") is being developed to be presented to the
Ontario Ministery of Education for their approval. I am preparing the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->QSL
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">curriculum as the first language from kindergarten to grade 2 (
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->2006-2007),
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">from grade 3 to grade 8 (2007-2008) and from grade 9 to grade 12 (
2008-2009). Upon approval of the project, the guide of QSL curriculum
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->will
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">be distributed to teachers of Deaf students in the province of Ontario.
And now I would like to learn more about SW curriculum. Do you have a
Sign Writing curriculum from kindergarten to grade 12 for deaf children,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->not
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">adults? To my knowledge I believe that only 2 teachers
( Cecila Flood in USA, Stefan Worhenman in Germany and one
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->researcher(Kegl
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">in Nicaragua) (another may be Brazil) have been teaching sign writing
course to deaf children since many years. Also, I know that Juliette (
France), Katheren ( Belgium) and others ( Germany- Swiss, and so on) have
been teaching the Deaf children an introduction to SW for a few years.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->What
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">about the popular hearing trainers ( Val, Ingvil, Stefan) and deaf
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->trainers
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">( Therirry, Lucyna, Stuart) who give to hearing and deaf adults an
introduction to SW.
While visiting the Centre of Total Communication in Danemark in 1998, I
asked the hearing and deaf teachers if they were using the SW in the class
in 1998 and the answer was no.
I already checked your SW book for adults and also found you have a few
children books ( literature) for reading. Do you have a strategic
instrument to teach deaf children how to read and write SW? As an
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->example,
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">French hearing children in grade 1 learn to form the regular plural of the
nouns by adding an " s": chat-chats ( in English, cat-cats). But, they
cannot acquire the plural "aux"of nouns ending in "al" in grade 1:
cheval-chevaux ( in English ox-oxen). It is only in grade 2 that the
hearing children can acquire appropriately the plural " aux" of the nouns
ending "al".
As the level of grades seems important for deaf children to acquire
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">symbol of rotation, my question is : should it be in grade 2 or in grade
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->3?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">As far as I am conserned I do not know.
Best regards
André Thibeault
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
</blockquote>
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