Where is there room for style and feel? <br><br>From a feeling point of view, her name sign looks like the K is resting on the arm, and then the J hand feels as if it goes straight down and then turns toward the chest. <br><br>If one were to take the arm away, it is not produced the same way, as that becomes fingerspelling with the J upright and then turning down. <br><br>With the arm, the production changes appearance as a brush of the bottom of the little finger against the arm, which does not feel like PALM Down but simply straight down. <br><br>The exact palm facing may be palm down, but that is not how it "feels". It "feels" like the K is upright and the J is pointing downward, and it is elegantly written in a shorthand kind of way. The arrowhead would change to a single line with the arrow moving toward one and up, but the feel is not Parallel to the Arm, but straight down. <br><br>Doesn't the user of the name have the right to put
any Style and Feel into how they produce a sign? One can choose whether thumb or little finger is being moved, why not which orientation is the right "feel" for the sign?<br><br><br><b><i>Valerie Sutton <signwriting@MAC.COM></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> Stefan is correct, Charles...This sign name for Kelly Jo needs to be <br>discussed a little...<br><br>I would probably write it this way:<br><br><br><br><br>Let's discuss this original writing:<br><br><br>I certainly can see why this was hard to write! and I also understand <br>that we need to review the Rotation symbols for everyone's sake...<br><br><br>First look at the I hand...it is in this position...<br><br><br><br><br>That is just physically very hard to do!<br><br><br>And the Rotation Symbol ....<br><br>This symbols means the forearm is parallel with the Front Wall and <br>the thumb rotates back towards
the chest:<br><br><br><br>The way we write the letter KJ without the arm is this way:<br><br><br>The J hand starts with the finger up, and then the arm moves to be <br>parallel with the Floor and the Rotation itself is down and around...<br><br><br><br>So this is one suggestion:<br><br><br><br><br>There are other ways too I am sure...we just need to find a better <br>way with a correct Rotation Symbol and Palm Facing...<br><br><br>Val ;-)<br><br>--------<br><br><br><br>On May 1, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Charles Butler wrote:<br><br>> I find this easy to read, the brush contact is the equivalent of a <br>> contact star, and the movement is placed for reading convenience <br>> below the arm line. That's how I would write an ASL "J" that <br>> brushed the arm, else the movement would put the handshape too far <br>> visually from the arm.<br>><br>> Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE> wrote:<br>> Hi Kelly,<br>><br>> well - can you
describe how to sign your signname?<br>><br>> <463177574000000><br>><br>> For some reason I do not know.<br>><br>> First part no problem K-hand touches left lower arm ...<br>><br>> your rotation arrow describes a movement of the right thumb, right <br>> lower arm above or below the I-hand ? Now brush contact of the <br>> little finger – lower arm above the hand ? hm --<br>><br>><br>> Stefan ;-)<br>><br>><br>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>> Von: owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu [mailto:owner-sw- <br>> l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von K.J. Boal<br>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 1. Mai 2007 03:20<br>> An: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br>> Betreff: RE: AW: [sw-l] Sign Names in SignWriting ;-)<br>><br>> Mine looks right!<br>> KJ<br>><br>><br>> >From: "Stefan Wöhrmann"<stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE><br>> >Reply-To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br>> >To:
sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br>> >Subject: AW: [sw-l] Sign Names in SignWriting ;-)<br>> >Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 00:19:09 +0200<br>> ><br>> >OK - attached you find the first snapshot of a table showing only <br>> the names<br>> >of the participants and their signnames - the way I understood <br>> them, or got<br>> >them ... ?<br>> ><br>> >If everything is ok - if there is no spelling problem I will go <br>> forward to<br>> >create a set of TT-Font symbols of these<br>> ><br>> >Next message will show the second part of the group<br>> ><br>> >(according the rule - one attachment with one message)<br>> ><br>> >Stefan ;-)<br>> ><br>> >-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>> >Von: owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br>> >[mailto:owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von <br>> Valerie Sutton<br>> >Gesendet: Montag, 30. April 2007
23:41<br>> >An: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br>> >Betreff: [sw-l] Sign Names in SignWriting ;-)<br>> ><br>> >SignWriting List<br>> >April 30, 2007<br>> ><br>> >Stefan -<br>> >Can you show us the sign names that you do have written already, and<br>> >post them to the List? Then we all can have fun looking at them and<br>> >checking them ;-)<br>> ><br>> >So go right ahead and post them to the List and then we can discuss<br>> >reading everyone's names together to see if we understand the<br>> >SignWriting...<br>> ><br>> >Thanks for doing this, Stefan...<br>> ><br>> >Val ;-)<br>> ><br>> >----------<br>> ><br>> ><br>> >On Apr 30, 2007, at 1:45 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > Hello Jonathan,<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > thanks for your kind words ...<br>> >
><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > well I finished a great table of all the people who showed <br>> interest<br>> > > in the handwriting course. – smile –<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > What is missing that we started to write our signnames by hand. My<br>> > > idea has been to offer to you a TT Font showing your handwriting<br>> > > and the computerprogram – spelling as you can get with <br>> SignPuddle –<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Unfortunately we did never come so far to discuss our handwriting<br>> > > of our signnames. Since it takes me quite a time to create the TT-<br>> > > Font I really would prefer to do this job on a basis that the<br>> > > spelling of the signnames are checked by Valerie –<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > What do you think ?<br>> >
><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Nice to read that you are still interested in this job which<br>> > > already took quite a portion of time and concentration – smile<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > All the best<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Stefan ;-)<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Von: owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu [mailto:owner-sw-<br>> > > l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Jonathan<br>> > > Gesendet: Montag, 30. April 2007 21:07<br>> > > An: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br>> > > Betreff: [sw-l] Welcome back Stefan<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Welcome back Stefan!!!<br>> > ><br>> > > P.S. Did you finish the Sign names fonts you were working on? Or<br>> > > did
that get put on the back burner now that we aren't currently<br>> > > any lessons on the list?<br>> > ><br>> > > Jonathan<br>> > ><br>> > > Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > > Hi Valerie, Cherie and listmembers –<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > well I am back online – smile –<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > You folks have been so incredible active! Too many messages – so<br>> > > that I will need some time to catch up with what is discussed ...<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Looking at your video Cherie – I would write it this way<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > <image001.jpg><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > All the best<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>>
> ><br>> > > Stefan<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Von: owner-sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu [mailto:owner-sw-<br>> > > l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Cherie Wren<br>> > > Gesendet: Samstag, 28. April 2007 16:52<br>> > > An: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br>> > > Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Shurley 4<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > I always have troubles with the rotations... that is my signing,<br>> > > not a transcription. The two 'baby x's facing each other, then <br>> the<br>> > > right hand twists down twice and the left hand twists up twice<br>> > > while the palms continue to face each other-- best way I can<br>> > > describe it in words. Here is a clip.<br>> > ><br>> > > ----- Original Message ----<br>> > > From:
"adam@frostvillage.com" <adam@frostvillage.com><br>> > > To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br>> > > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 1:05:09 AM<br>> > > Subject: RE: [sw-l] Shurley 4<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Cherie,<br>> > ><br>> > > I was just reading your jingle. Very interesting. :-) Very well<br>> > > written too. They only sign that I had a problem with was (I am<br>> > > guessing) modify. The way that it was written is the same movement<br>> > > that would be for a vertical "dead" or "opening the right door<br>> > > while closing the left door." I took me a few tries of signing it<br>> > > to see what you were saying. I think that the movement for modify<br>> > > (at least the way I sign it) is the same as signing class except<br>> > > the left hand goes the opposite way. I don't know if I am right in<br>> >
> my movement writing, but I was thinking that the movement was<br>> > > better written this way. But if you are transcribing and the <br>> person<br>> > > signed it the way I mentioned before, then keep it. :-)<br>> > ><br>> > > Adam<br>> > ><br>> > > PS I'll try to get a clip of my signing the two movements as a<br>> > > picture is worth a thousand words.<br>> > ><br>> > > Load message into SignText<br>> > ><br>> > > Courtesy of SignBank.org<br>> > ><br>> > > 337e55242c3367ad66f00b5c9bd745bb = <br>> 337e55242c3367ad66f00b5c9bd745bb<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?<br>> > > Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > --<br>> > ><br>> >
> Jonathan & Yolaine Duncan<br>> > > 8-) & ;-)<br>> > ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> >Val ;-)<br>> ><br>> ><br>> >Valerie Sutton<br>> >Sutton@SignWriting.org<br>> ><br>> >1. SignWriting<br>> >Read & Write Sign Languages<br>> >http://www.SignWriting.org<br>> ><br>> >2. SignBank<br>> >Create Sign Language Databases<br>> >http://www.SignBank.org<br>> ><br>> >3. SignPuddle<br>> >Online Sign Language Community<br>> >http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle<br>> ><br>> >4. SignWriting List<br>> >Technical Support: Ask questions to the List<br>> >http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/swlist<br>> ><br>> >5. DanceWriting<br>> >Read & Write Dance Movement<br>> >http://www.DanceWriting.org<br>> ><br>> >6. MovementWriting<br>> >Read & Write All Body Movement<br>>
>http://www.MovementWriting.org<br>> ><br>> >7. SymbolBank<br>> >International Movement Writing Alphabet<br>> >http://www.MovementWriting.org/symbolbank<br>> ><br>> >8. Non-profit Organization<br>> >Center for Sutton Movement Writing<br>> >http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/sponsors<br>> ><br>> >SignWriting Literature Project<br>> >The DAC, Deaf Action Committee<br>> >Center For Sutton Movement Writing<br>> >an educational nonprofit organization<br>> >P.O. Box 517, La Jolla, CA, 92038, USA<br>> >tel 858-456-0098 fax 858-456-0020<br>> >D-Link Videophone: 66.27.57.178<br>> >Skype Name: valeriesutton<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>><br>><br>> ><< tableofparticipantshandwritingcoursenamesandsignnames1.gif >><br>><br>> _________________________________________________________________<br>> Win a webcam! Nominate your friend’s
Windows Live Space in the <br>> Windows Live<br>> Spaces Sweetest Space Contest and you both could win!<br>> http://www.microsoft.com/canada/home/contests/sweetestspace/ <br>> default.aspx<br>><br>><br><br></adam@frostvillage.com></image001.jpg></stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE></stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE></blockquote><br>