<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">SignWriting List<div>September 29, 2008</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you, Cherie, for your excellent explanation...which was perfect....</div><div><br></div><div>Natasha - I believe you understand that the handshapes can rotate in 8 possible rotations now. But there is one misunderstanding I have noticed in your questions. You assume that we are talking about height. These rotations have nothing to do with how high or low your hand is...or how near or far they are, because they represent "planes"...</div><div><br></div><div>These palm facings represent "planes in space"...the classic example of this is the sign for MY or MINE.</div><div><br></div><div>We write the sign for MY or MINE with a white palm touching the chest. Obviously, if you look down at your hand touching your chest, you see the overhead view of the side view of the hand, but we do not write it that way...so it is not just based on what is in your own view, but it is based instead on planes...essentially there is a "white palm plane" that is written with a white palm, whether the hand is far or close to the body...</div><div><br></div><div>If the palm is facing the chest, parallel to the Front Wall Plane, whether it is close to your body or far from your body...it is all on the same "white palm plane".... Try this...put your hand in the position of the sign for MY, but far from your body, and then move it in the exact position towards your chest....and then it touches your chest...that is all the same plane or palm facing...</div><div><br></div><div>Another way to say it is that the sign for MY or MINE "feels like the white palm" because the white palm is doing the contact...it is the important meaning to the sign...</div><div><br></div><div>So the palm facings are on planes...see attached...take a look at the white palm in all these positions...all of these could happen...the white palm means that the hand is parallel to the Front Wall, with the palm away from the Front Wall, no matter what the height or depth...see attached...This shows the white palm with the Flat Palm but it is the same for any white palm symbol, whether it is group 1 or group 5:</div><div><br></div><div><img height="194" width="237" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:EFF2EB6B-E2AA-4E6B-84A8-481E3376216E"></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><br><div><div>On Sep 29, 2008, at 6:01 AM, Natasha Escalada-Westland wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div align="left"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">So the handshape below would pretty much have to occur in the space right in front of your face...? Any lower and it would be written as a side-view, no? Again, thanks everybody for clarification. It helps to know that some shapes may or may not be commonly used.</div> <br><div align="left"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-01-001-01-01-03&color=000000"><br><br>Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.<br>Westland Progeny,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><a href="http://www.westlandprogeny.com/" target="_blank">www.westlandprogeny.com</a><br><a href="http://www.westlandasl.com/" target="_blank">www.westlandasl.com</a><br><br><br> <br><br><br><hr>Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 03:52:59 -0700<br>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:cwterp@yahoo.com">cwterp@yahoo.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [sw-l] Group 1 handshape symbol differentiation<br>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br><br></div><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times, serif; "><div>I think I see the problem...<br><br>Picture the hand palm facing you, index finger pointing straight up. Stick an imaginary pin thru your palm into the 'wall', and rotate the hand counter-clockwise 90 degrees. The index finger is now pointing to the left, palm is still facing you. This is the second image in your email below.<br><br>Now picture the hand palm facing UP, index finger pointing straight away from you. Stick the imaginary pin in the 'floor' and rotate counter clockwise 90 degrees. Your palm should be facing up, your index finger pointing to the left. It hurts my arm to do that. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>For 'sometimes' the palm is most likely facing to the side, half black, half white.<br><br>cherie<br></div><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times, serif; "><br><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; ">----- Original Message ----<br>From: Valerie Sutton <<a href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">signwriting@mac.com</a>><br>To: SignWriting List <<a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br>Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:27:33 PM<br>Subject: Re: [sw-l] Group 1 handshape symbol differentiation<br><br><div><blockquote><div><div><div><div>On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:00 PM, Natasha Escalada-Westland wrote:</div><blockquote><span class="EC_Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal Arial; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; "><div class="EC_hmmessage" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; ">Thank you for all your replies! I really like the animations. They are helpful. Yet, after reading and looking at everything, I am still not completely sure. After reading Adam's post, perhaps now my question is, how are all these symbols different? Matching the symbols with whole signs has been very helpful to me in the past. I will try to describe the hand position to confirm if I understand.<br> <br><div align="left"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-01-001-01-04-03&color=000000"> This hand would be palm up, occurring in the lower portion of my sign space, the way I might sign "sometimes"</div> <br><div align="left"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-01-001-01-01-03&color=000000"> ?<br></div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>--------------</div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>Here are some examples of signs that use the Index Finger...see attached...</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span><049 Hand-Group1.jpg></span></div></div></div></div><br><br><br><br>____________________________________________<br><br>SW-L SignWriting List<br><br>Post Message<br><a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br><br>List Archives and Help<br><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br><br>Change Email Settings<br><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>