<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>As Stefan and Ingvild gave really good responses, I will keep mine short and simple. 9 times out of 10 I personally write with the front view. This is because it is easiest to read. So here is my "internal" rule as I write. "Use the simplest way the most while remembering the other ways when simple doesn't work." Hope that helps. </div><div><br></div><div>The best way to learn how to write with SignWriting is to write. So why don't you try to write something from ASL as you know it and then ask for feedback. That is how I learned. Now I have people who are constantly asking me questions. ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>Adam <br><br>On Oct 1, 2008, at 7:11 AM, Stefan Wöhrmann <<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de">stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Hello Natasha, Ingvild ... friends<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">well in the long run this
will not become a difficult decision – smile- You are lucky that there
are already lots and lots of ASL signs written in SignWriting. I would recomend
to just look at the materials written by competent scribes – und while
doing so you will get familiar with “typical” SW representations of
ASL signs you already know. Just for fun you may look at the US Sign-Puddle –
The search for symbol function is a wonderfull option to look for many signs
written with the index finger in either plane. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">And I agree with Ingvild
that most of us prefer the front view. The two alternatives you show below are
not too often because often the fingers do not show directly to the left or
right – ....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">In the long run you will
develop the feeling for an easy to read “design” of a sign. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I loved to look at the
videos you mentioned before<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">All the best <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Stefan ;-) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a href="mailto:sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>
[<a href="mailto:sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">mailto:sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:
bold">Im Auftrag von </span></b>Natasha Escalada-Westland<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Gesendet:</span></b> Mittwoch, 1. Oktober
2008 14:31<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">An:</span></b> SignWriting List<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Betreff:</span></b> RE: [sw-l] Group 1
handshape symbol differentiation</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma">I have been thinking about all this information, and I have
refined my question once again. I do appreciate everyone's
patience. I understand that the symbols represent the planes from which
the hand is viewed. How then does one decide when to switch planes of
view to represent a sign one would like to write?<br>
<br>
For example, my original question involved trying to represent a hand, palm in,
pointed to my left, located in front of my body. Because the hand can be
represented in both the wall and the floor plane (palm or side view or
perspective), how or when does one make the decision to use either one or the
other representation?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma"><img width="30" height="15" id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-01-001-01-01-03&color=000000" atl="01-01-001-01-01-03"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma"><img width="30" height="15" id="_x0000_i1026" src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-01-001-01-05-03&color=000000" atl="01-01-001-01-05-03"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma">One helpful list-member pointed out that you could imagine
sticking a pin in the hand shape and rotating it. How do I decide which
side to stick the pin in? Another list-member said I should decide
based on the placement or height of the hand (am I seeing more of wall or floor
plane). And then I also got advice that the height (placement?) is irrelevant.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma">Truly, the hand is a six-sided box, if you choose to think
about it that way, so I am wondering if there is a writing rule that helps us
decide from which of the three parallel planes we are actually viewing or
writing it from.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma">How do you all go about making these decisions when
writing? Is there a standard or rule for when to "break" or
change planes?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma">Thanks again!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma"><br>
<br>
Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.<br>
Westland Progeny, <br>
<a href="http://www.westlandprogeny.com/" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.westlandprogeny.com">www.westlandprogeny.com</a></a><br>
<a href="http://www.westlandasl.com/" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.westlandasl.com">www.westlandasl.com</a></a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com"><a href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">signwriting@mac.com</a></a><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a></a><br>
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] Group 1 handshape symbol differentiation<br>
> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 07:53:26 -0700<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> And the same is true for the plane parallel to the Floor. We can <br>
> pretend we are on the ceiling, looking down at hands that are parallel <br>
> to the Floor Plane. Those hands have the break across them...and they <br>
> can be high or low or far or near to the body, and if we pretend we <br>
> are a bird sitting high up, looking down, we see the hand parallel to <br>
> the floor...no matter how high or low the hand itself is...that is why <br>
> Ingvild called it the "bird's eye view"...so all these levels of
<br>
> hands, parallel to the Floor Plane have a break in the handshape.<br>
> <br>
> In the attached diagram all these hands are in the exact same palm <br>
> facing. They are simply at different heights. They are all parallel to <br>
> the Floor. And we are viewing them as if we were a bird sitting on the <br>
> ceiling....so we know it is the Floor Plane, when there is a break in <br>
> the finger...at any height:<br>
> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>____________________________________________</span><br><span></span><br><span>SW-L SignWriting List</span><br><span></span><br><span>Post Message</span><br><span><a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>List Archives and Help</span><br><span><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Change Email Settings</span><br><span><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>