Hi Steve and Adam,<br><br>yes that's the question. <br>So if dictionary understand - and _ as space then, it's the way how to do it. I hope.<br>But in that case space has no use in dictionary if dictionary does not recognise phrases like "he gives him".<br>
I know it is not so easy as it seems to handle this.<br><br>thanks<br>Honza<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Steve Slevinski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:slevin@signpuddle.net">slevin@signpuddle.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Hi Adam,<br>
<br>
If that's the questions, then the answer is to use - or _ instead of
spaces between words in translate. Even if the dictionary entry uses
spaces, the translate section will understand that - or _ means a space.<br>
<br>
So if you want to pull up "what's up" in translate, you enter
"what's-up" or "what's_up" in translate and it will find the right
entry.<br>
<br>
You could also force translate to do a search by entering "wha" in the
translate text area. Since "wha" doesn't match any specific entry, it
will perform a search and display all matching entires such as "what",
"what's up", ... As of now, there is no way to force a search if there
is a matching entry. Since "what" has a specific match, it will only
display the "what" entries.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
-Steve<br>
<br>
Adam Frost wrote:
<blockquote type="cite"><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">
<div>Honza</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I could be way off which is why I am asking. Are you asking if
there is a way in translation to get a multi word sign? For example if
the sign in the ASL dictionary is any entered as "I give him" then how
do you pull up that sign? Is that what you are asking?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam<br>
<br>
On Oct 17, 2008, at 6:17 AM, "Charles Butler" <<a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" target="_blank">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>give-to-me<input name="sign0" value="01-05-044-01-01-08,140,96,01-05-044-01-01-16,106,97,02-08-001-01-01-06,143,132,02-08-001-01-02-05,110,132" checked type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-044-01-01-08,140,96,01-05-044-01-01-16,106,97,02-08-001-01-01-06,143,132,02-08-001-01-02-05,110,132"><br>
<br>
<table border="1" cellpadding="4">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="14">give</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="05-01-004-01-01-05,114,162,02-05-001-01-01-01,92,122,02-05-001-01-01-01,138,122,01-05-044-01-02-05,80,145,01-05-044-01-02-13,133,146" checked type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=05-01-004-01-01-05,114,162,02-05-001-01-01-01,92,122,02-05-001-01-01-01,138,122,01-05-044-01-02-05,80,145,01-05-044-01-02-13,133,146"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="01-01-007-01-02-01,129,144,01-01-007-01-05-09,92,79,01-01-007-01-05-01,130,79,01-01-007-01-02-09,91,142,02-05-001-01-01-01,132,117,02-05-001-01-02-01,90,118,05-01-004-01-01-05,110,175" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-01-007-01-02-01,129,144,01-01-007-01-05-09,92,79,01-01-007-01-05-01,130,79,01-01-007-01-02-09,91,142,02-05-001-01-01-01,132,117,02-05-001-01-02-01,90,118,05-01-004-01-01-05,110,175"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="01-01-007-01-02-01,146,54,02-04-001-02-01-05,146,89,03-01-007-01-01-01,63,32,03-01-008-01-01-01,104,32" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-01-007-01-02-01,146,54,02-04-001-02-01-05,146,89,03-01-007-01-01-01,63,32,03-01-008-01-01-01,104,32"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="02-08-001-01-01-01,98,73,01-01-007-01-02-01,107,101,05-01-003-01-01-01,104,61" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=02-08-001-01-01-01,98,73,01-01-007-01-02-01,107,101,05-01-003-01-01-01,104,61"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="02-08-003-02-01-01,140,76,02-08-003-02-02-01,78,75,01-05-044-01-01-08,137,127,01-05-044-01-01-16,92,115,05-01-004-01-01-01,112,72" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=02-08-003-02-01-01,140,76,02-08-003-02-02-01,78,75,01-05-044-01-01-08,137,127,01-05-044-01-01-16,92,115,05-01-004-01-01-01,112,72"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="01-05-044-01-01-08,88,91,01-05-044-01-01-16,49,87.00000000000176,02-08-001-01-01-01,88,53,02-08-001-01-02-02,52,45,05-01-004-01-01-01,76,38" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-044-01-01-08,88,91,01-05-044-01-01-16,49,87.00000000000176,02-08-001-01-01-01,88,53,02-08-001-01-02-02,52,45,05-01-004-01-01-01,76,38"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="01-05-001-01-04-09,44,54,01-05-001-01-04-01,94,52,02-08-001-01-01-01,96,93,02-08-001-01-02-02,47,94,01-05-044-01-01-08,99,133,01-05-044-01-01-16,45,132,05-01-004-01-01-05,72,170" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-001-01-04-09,44,54,01-05-001-01-04-01,94,52,02-08-001-01-01-01,96,93,02-08-001-01-02-02,47,94,01-05-044-01-01-08,99,133,01-05-044-01-01-16,45,132,05-01-004-01-01-05,72,170"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="01-05-001-01-04-02,144,95,01-05-001-01-04-10,110,86,05-01-004-01-01-01,130,125,02-08-001-01-01-01,150,131,02-08-001-01-02-01,105,119,01-05-044-01-01-08,153,160,01-05-044-01-01-16,109,150" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-001-01-04-02,144,95,01-05-001-01-04-10,110,86,05-01-004-01-01-01,130,125,02-08-001-01-01-01,150,131,02-08-001-01-02-01,105,119,01-05-044-01-01-08,153,160,01-05-044-01-01-16,109,150"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="01-05-044-01-01-08,122,105,02-10-004-01-04-05,135,79" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-044-01-01-08,122,105,02-10-004-01-04-05,135,79"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="02-08-001-01-01-01,97,72,01-05-044-01-04-08,96,98" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=02-08-001-01-01-01,97,72,01-05-044-01-04-08,96,98"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="01-01-007-01-02-01,131,146,02-08-001-01-01-01,132,112,01-01-007-01-05-01,131,78" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-01-007-01-02-01,131,146,02-08-001-01-01-01,132,112,01-01-007-01-05-01,131,78"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="01-05-044-01-05-06,133,79,01-05-044-01-05-06,197,81,02-09-001-02-02-09,139,53,02-09-001-02-01-09,196,51,05-01-004-01-01-05,168,106" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-044-01-05-06,133,79,01-05-044-01-05-06,197,81,02-09-001-02-02-09,139,53,02-09-001-02-01-09,196,51,05-01-004-01-01-05,168,106"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="02-08-001-01-02-02,74,81,05-01-004-01-01-05,94,143,02-08-001-01-01-01,101,76,01-05-044-01-05-01,108,115,01-05-044-01-05-09,68,122" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=02-08-001-01-02-02,74,81,05-01-004-01-01-05,94,143,02-08-001-01-01-01,101,76,01-05-044-01-05-01,108,115,01-05-044-01-05-09,68,122"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="02-08-001-01-01-01,97,72,01-01-007-01-02-01,106,100" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=02-08-001-01-01-01,97,72,01-01-007-01-02-01,106,100"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="01-05-044-01-01-08,69,146,02-05-005-01-01-08,87,135" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-044-01-01-08,69,146,02-05-005-01-01-08,87,135"></td>
<td valign="top"><input name="sign0" value="02-08-001-01-02-02,75,82,01-01-007-01-02-09,75,112,02-08-001-01-01-01,102,77,01-01-007-01-02-01,107,105,05-01-004-01-01-05,95,144" type="radio"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=02-08-001-01-02-02,75,82,01-01-007-01-02-09,75,112,02-08-001-01-01-01,102,77,01-01-007-01-02-01,107,105,05-01-004-01-01-05,95,144"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
As you can see, give-to-me" is a phrase, "give" is a verb which has
many contexts. <br>
<br>
You have to experiment.<br>
<br>
Charles<br>
<br>
<br>
<b><i>Honza <<a href="mailto:honza@ruce.cz" target="_blank">honza@ruce.cz</a>></i></b> wrote:
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">
yes, but it is not possible to do the same in translating, or is?<br>
<br>
thanks <br>
Honza<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Charles
Butler <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" target="_blank">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">In
addition, Honza, this function works and lets you search all parameters.<br>
<br>
<table border="1" cellpadding="5">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=4060,7106&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">become</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=840,826,7535,9119,2053,2915,4259,8651,2066,1937&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">come</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=7413&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">come here</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=353,5174&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">come together</a><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=2264&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">come-</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=4335&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">come-2</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=860&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">come-down</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=2410,4750&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">come-here</a><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=1890&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">come-here-boy</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=2500,8743&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">income</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=665&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">light comes on</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3393&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">overcome</a><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=1341,2362,4325,785,1604,7347,4507&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">welcome</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=2803&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">welcome (person left)</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=6179&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">welcome (person right)</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=7347&search=come&type=any" target="_blank">welcome welcome</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
If you save a sign you try to put every way it could be translated. <br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Charles</font>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<b><i>Charles Butler <<a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" target="_blank">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a>></i></b>
wrote:
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">
Looking up "give" Honza, gives ALL appearances of "give". It doesn't
depend on hyphens. It's a text searcher, not looking for blanks or
hyphens.<br>
<br>
<table border="1" cellpadding="5">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=4665,5156&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">forgive</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=1644,939,8537,8893,9356,3048,2735,317,6995,4356,6603,2747,8801,6602&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=7529,7528&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">Give</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=820,312&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give (2) you give me</a><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=821,6096&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give (v) I give you</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=1340&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give myself baby</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=9478&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give up</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=6717&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give-back</a><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=1223&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give-cup-to</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3193&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give-cups-to-several-people</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=2997&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give-gift</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=1756&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give-give</a><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=4267&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give-out</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=1798&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give-to</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=4339&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give-to-me</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=2075&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">give-up</a><br>
</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=5612&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">gives</a><br>
<a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=6995&search=give&type=any" target="_blank">I give to you</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
I think the Sign Puddle, for what it does, does a pretty good job.<br>
<br>
Try experimenting with the search function as well as particular
words. Sign Puddle has been working for many years. <br>
<br>
<b><i>Honza <<a href="mailto:honza@ruce.cz" target="_blank">honza@ruce.cz</a>></i></b> wrote:
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">
sure there are many signs like that.<br>
I just wonder how to do it in signpuddle.<br>
Probably name signs with both "he gives to me" and "he-give-to-me"
otherwise if you search for "give" in search result you would not see
"he-give-to-me".<br>
<br>
Honza<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 1:28 PM,
Charles Butler <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" target="_blank">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
The problem is that ANY language translation program needs to be done
"phrase by phrase" and that comes out as lots of hyphens "what's-up" in
the current version of sign puddle. "I-give-to-him" is another
example. ASL carries direction in a single sign, so every phrase has
to be included in a comprehensive dictionary. It will be a challenge
for any spoken language to any signed language and all translation
programs have to build in "proximity" rules for phrases. <br>
<br>
"I give to him" is not "he gives to me" and sign puddle translation has
to have both phrases. It will be a challenge for a long time.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Charles Butler</font>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<b><i>Honza <<a href="mailto:honza@ruce.cz" target="_blank">honza@ruce.cz</a>></i></b> wrote:
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">
sure I know, but it is also how are sings shown. I think it is possible
to do it that way, it is possible than to translate prhases as well, if
they are entered to the puddle. <br>
Right now there is only way - to label more words terms with "-".<br>
so then I am not able to take advantage of having possibility to enter
signs that needs to be labeled with more words.<br>
thanks<br>
<br>
Honza<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 12:46
PM, Cherie Wren <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cwterp@yahoo.com" target="_blank">cwterp@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div>The problem is with how the sign is entered into
the puddle, I think. If I enter the (single) sign that would be
translated "whats up", I would label it as WHAT-UP. There is no
program known that can ACCURATELY translate from one language to
another (have you SEEN the results from Babelfish?!) All the computer
can do is substitute the sign WHAT for what, the (English) sigh IS for
is, and the sign UP for up. It can't know that the English 'what is
up' translates to a single sign, unless you label the sign that way
when you enter it. <br>
<br>
The preceeding message is from a non-programming computer user. Your
mileage may vary. ::grin::<br>
<br>
cherie<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
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<hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
Honza <<a href="mailto:honza@ruce.cz" target="_blank">honza@ruce.cz</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
SignWriting List <<a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, October 17, 2008 5:29:42 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[sw-l] translating text in signpuddle<br>
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Hi Val,<br>
<br>
since SignPuddle 1.5 was published I have problems with translating
text.<br>
Let me explain. Short example. I need to translate "whats up" in longer
text. <br>
So I write "... what is up ..."<br>
But in the SL text appear signs "... WHAT UP .. "<br>
but I need it to translate ony with one sign.<br>
So I can do it in some ways (like in sign "what's up" add meaning
"what" to be shown beside single "what".. or use "-" but that's not
what I need.<br>
<br>
<br>
Is there some way how to make clean translation of phrases into one
sign (which is already added in to puddle)?<br>
<br>
thanks<br>
Honza<br>
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