<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Verdana
}
</style>
</head>
<body class='hmmessage'>
So then perhaps this movement symbol is more correct?<BR>
<BR>
<CENTER><IMG src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-10-006-01-01-01&color=000000" atl="02-10-006-01-01-01"></CENTER>
It is used in signs with similar movements such as:<BR>
<BR>
<IMG src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=03-03-001-03-01-01,91,104,01-01-001-01-01-03,120,142,02-10-006-02-01-01,96,142"><BR>
<BR>
but with a single movement...<BR><BR>Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.<BR><A href="http://www.westlandasl.com/">www.westlandasl.com</A><BR><BR><BR> <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:06:02 -0800<BR>> From: chazzer3332000@yahoo.com<BR>> Subject: RE: [sw-l] Question about ASL sign GOVERNMENT<BR>> To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<BR>> <BR>> The wrist rotation starts from the top of the hand and<BR>> goes down and around. I can understand you seeing it<BR>> going up and forward but the direction of the arrow is<BR>> still around the outside of the circle not the inside<BR>> of the circle. <BR>> <BR>> If you look at movement as a clock face, you are going<BR>> clockwise around the circle, not counter-clockwise, so<BR>> you could mark as I to the center, but not to the<BR>> left.<BR>> <BR>> There are actually two knuckle bends, one to start,<BR>> and one at the end, so the writing with both hands<BR>> shown is probably clearer, just not as compact. <BR>> <BR>> Charles<BR>> --- Natasha Escalada-Westland <shash90@hotmail.com><BR>> wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > <BR>> > Thanks everyone for the feedback and discussion! I<BR>> > understand all the explanations except the wrist<BR>> > rotation. To me, the symbol that Adam used and<BR>> > Charles discussed looks as if the wrist rotates down<BR>> > and back, yet when I sign to myself, the movement<BR>> > seems up and forward. Do I misunderstand movement<BR>> > symbol then?Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH),<BR>> > Macromedia Cert.www.westlandasl.com <BR>> > <BR>> > From: icemandeaf@gmail.comTo:<BR>> > sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.eduSubject: Re: [sw-l]<BR>> > Question about ASL sign GOVERNMENTDate: Thu, 20 Nov<BR>> > 2008 13:01:47 -0800CC: shash90@hotmail.com<BR>> > If I were to write it as I sign it, which is a lot<BR>> > like how I can see Natasha is writing it, I would<BR>> > come up with this for more detailed use:<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > But I would simplify it even more as this is really<BR>> > more information then is needed. So something like<BR>> > this:<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Although Charles did say that the palm should all be<BR>> > white as it is in ASLpro and wouldn't disagree with<BR>> > it if it is written that way because I have seen<BR>> > people sign it that way, I don't normally end up<BR>> > that way when I sign it. So half black and white or<BR>> > white is fine. Up to the writer. ;-)<BR>> > <BR>> > The black dot means the knuckle bends in, but the<BR>> > open dot means the knuckles bend out, so the final<BR>> > movement is bending open. <BR>> > <BR>> > Charles is right that the wrist circle is backwards<BR>> > as you have it where the wrist circles up, not down<BR>> > as with the sign.<BR>> > <BR>> > I personally don't use the single touch because it<BR>> > is clear that the finger is touching the head. Also,<BR>> > the touch symbol does not go between the finger and<BR>> > the head, but near if you want it there. <BR>> > <BR>> > Other than that, my simplified writing (which is<BR>> > what I would normally use in most cases) match very<BR>> > closely to you writing. Just a few confusions about<BR>> > a couple of the symbols, but not bad. :-)<BR>> > <BR>> > If you want more help, just let us know. Always<BR>> > willing to give feedback on writing. :-)<BR>> > <BR>> > Adam<BR>> > On Nov 20, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Charles Butler wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> > If one knows the sign, this is quite compact and<BR>> > contains all the information necessary to read<BR>> > outside to inside to end at the point of contact. I<BR>> > checked on<BR>> > <BR>> > http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi<BR>> > <BR>> > to get a video of the sign (they only have Governor)<BR>> > but that is Govern + person.<BR>> > <BR>> > Notes on writing.<BR>> > <BR>> > Reading from the inside out. <BR>> > <BR>> > 1) Sign ends at point of contact (the palm facing<BR>> > usually written). At that point, the hand is palm<BR>> > facing the reader, the index finger as written is<BR>> > palm down, which is the point of initial movement<BR>> > not the ending movement. <BR>> > <BR>> > 2) The knuckle bend is shown correctly.<BR>> > <BR>> > 3) The wrist movement is backward. If one follows<BR>> > the circle, one's index finger would be going toward<BR>> > the center which is the opposite of the movement if<BR>> > one is signing one's own hand. As it is a complete<BR>> > circular movement, the type of movement is correct,<BR>> > just the rotation of the arrow needs to be mirrored.<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > So, to fix the writing:<BR>> > <BR>> > 1) Reverse the wrist circle (imagine the index<BR>> > finger circling away from you, which is out from the<BR>> > center in writing). <BR>> > <BR>> > 2) Change the palm facing on the index finger to<BR>> > palm toward the reader (all white, not half and<BR>> > half). <BR>> > <BR>> > 3) Leave the knuckle bend where it is. The whole<BR>> > writing is compact and actually quite elegant.<BR>> > <BR>> > Charles Butler<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Valerie Sutton <signwriting@mac.com> wrote:<BR>> > SignWriting ListNovember 20, 2008Hello SW List!This<BR>> > morning Natasha sent the SW List an email, and I am<BR>> > not sure why, but the message came through only<BR>> > through the Digest version of the SW List, but not<BR>> > into my email box...so just in case, I am re-posting<BR>> > Natasha's question to the List to be sure you all<BR>> > got it....I hope the SignWriting teachers on the<BR>> > List will answer Natasha's question! Thank you<BR>> > Natasha for this question! Val ;-)PS. I am enjoying<BR>> > my visit with my sister...thank you, Adam, for<BR>> > wishing us a happy Thanksgiving and I want to wish a<BR>> > happy Thanksgiving to you too, and to all who<BR>> > celebrate the holiday here in the US...Actually<BR>> > Thanksgiving Day is a week from today, but my sister<BR>> > came early because she cannot be here on the real<BR>> > Thanksgiving Day...so we are celebrating<BR>> > early...smile ;-)-----------------> From: "Natasha<BR>> > Escalada-Westland" > Date: November 20, 2008 5:19:42<BR>> > AM PST> To: "SignWriting Listserve" > Subject:<BR>> > [sw-l] ASL sign for government> Reply-To:<BR>> > "SignWriting List" >>> Hi All,>> I just wanted some<BR>> > feedback on this version I wrote of the ASL sign ><BR>> > for "government".> Thanks!>>>> Natasha<BR>> > Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.><BR>> ><BR>> www.westlandasl.com>____________________________________________SW-L<BR>> > SignWriting ListPost<BR>> > MessageSW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.eduList Archives<BR>> > and<BR>> > Helphttp://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/Change<BR>> > Email<BR>> ><BR>> Settingshttp://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l____________________________________________SW-L<BR>> > SignWriting ListPost<BR>> > MessageSW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.eduList Archives<BR>> > and<BR>> > Helphttp://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/Change<BR>> > Email<BR>> Settingshttp://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l><BR>> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > ____________________________________________<BR>> > <BR>> > SW-L SignWriting List<BR>> > <BR>> > Post Message<BR>> > SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<BR>> > <BR>> > List Archives and Help<BR>> > http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/<BR>> > <BR>> > Change Email Settings<BR>> ><BR>> http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l<BR><BR></body>
</html>