<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:tahoma,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div>But the hand can be wall plane but move floor plane, and visa-versa. Sign PUSH-- hand is wall plane, movement is floor plane. Sign GROW-UP-- hand is floor plane, movement is wall plane. Granted neither of those is movement to the side, but mixing of planes WILL happen, and not just occasionally.<br></div><div style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> KJ <kjoanne403@signwriting.org><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> SignWriting List <sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 27,
2008 11:27:16 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [sw-l] Movement to the side<br></font><br>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I feel the same way, Stefan - I always write single
stemmed arrows for side-to-side movement. But it is interesting what Andre
had to say... I didn't think about connecting the single-stemmed arrows with
floor plane handshapes and double-stemmed arrows with wall plane
handshapes. It makes sense to me, though! And if the kids feel it is
easier to read when the arrow stems match the handshape plane, then maybe we
should think about adopting that as a convention... </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">KJ</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>From:</b>
<a rel="nofollow" title="stefanwoehrmann@googlemail.com" ymailto="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@googlemail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@googlemail.com">Stefan Wöhrmann</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" ymailto="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">'SignWriting List'</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:42
AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b> AW: [sw-l] Movement to the
side</div>
<div><br></div>
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Hi Andrè,
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB">I agree with Adams
comment – it doesn’t matter. – smile – From my point of view – I prefer single
stemmed arrows if the movement is directly to the left or right side. But this
attitude developed over time – I guess it is a matter of clear structure .. .
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB">Sometimes I hesitate
if I should vote for top – down or frontview if a handorientation
allows both options ... and in the past we discussed this point that
almost always both hands in a sign should be written – (if possible) from the
same point of view ( both hands top down, or both hands front view) But even
here I decide to violate this “principle” if anything seems to prevent the
reader to understand intuitively and alost without any hesitation.
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB">So – my opinion –
left and right movement – (if they are meant to be straight to the left and
straight to the right) c a n be written with both
arrows ( double stemmed and sinle stemmed) but in these cases I always vote
for the single stemmed arrows.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB">Stefan ;-)
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr tabindex="-1" size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
[mailto:sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Im Auftrag von </span></b>Gagnon et
Thibeault<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Gesendet:</span></b>
Donnerstag, 27. November 2008 18:04<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">An:</span></b> SignWriting List<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Betreff:</span></b> Re: [sw-l] Movement to the
side</span></font></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">Hi Adam and
everyone,</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">
Yes, (A) and (B) are correct or the same. But Deaf students'thinking is
different from your thinking. For example, Deaf students develop a
phonological analysis for different SW symbols (hand on the floor or wall
plane and single-stemmed arrow (floor plane) and double-stemmed arrow (wall
plane)). Deaf students found that they are more comfortable to read (B)
than (A) because of the same wall planes. It is very important
for me to understand how to acquire and learn a phonological analysis for Deaf
kids, not Deaf adults. For example, a Deaf kid who is 7 years old is
able to read (B) more easy than (A) according to Deaf
teacher.</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">
I don't doubt that older kids are able to read either (A) and (B) than younger
kids.</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">
Regards,</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">
André</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color yellow; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">----- Original Message -----
</span></font></p></div>
<div style="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a rel="nofollow" title="icemandeaf@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:icemandeaf@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:icemandeaf@gmail.com">Adam Frost</a>
</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">To:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a rel="nofollow" title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" ymailto="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SignWriting List</a>
</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Sent:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">
Thursday, November 27, 2008 11:03 AM</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Subject:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> Re:
[sw-l] Movement to the side</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The difference between using the single stem arrow
and double stem for side movements is just writers preference. Either is
still correct. So (A) and (B) are the same. (C) and (D) have the hands on
the floor plane which is different from (A) and (B). I am not surprise that
the deaf students are talking about floor and wall planes.
;-)</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Adam<br><br>On Nov 27, 2008, at 7:15
AM, "Gagnon et Thibeault" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:atg@videotron.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:atg@videotron.ca">atg@videotron.ca</a>>
wrote:</span></font></p></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">Hi Val, Adam,
Stefan and everyone,</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">
It is interesting that Deaf students talked about a front view and a top
view.</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">
See my attached diagram. This is my writing (A) (DEFENDRE (French) =
INTERDICT (English). Deaf students are confused to read it because
they stopped reading and figured out it. Several Deaf students
explained that the two hands are parallel with the front wall (front
view), and the movement to the side with the single-stemmed arrows is
viewed from the floor (top view). They suggested that the two
hands are parallel with the front wall (front view), and the movement to
the side with the double-stemmed arrows is viewed from the front
wall (front view) (See the attached diagram (B) because Deaf students
read it easily (the same front view). They told Deaf teacher if they
use the two hands which are parallel with the floor, they use the
movement to the side with the single-stemmed arrows whhich is viewed from
the floor (top view) (See the attached diagram (C). They don't want
to use (D) since they aren't conformtable to read
it.</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">
I can't believe that Deaf students understand a concept of the front view
and the top view.</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">
I adopt Deaf
students'proposal.</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">
Regards,</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="6" color="yellow" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 24pt; color: yellow; font-family: Arial;">
André</span></font></b></strong></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div></div></blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><SW
DEFENDRE.doc></span></font></p></div></blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" type="cite">
<div>
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