<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">SignWriting List<div>November 30, 2008</div><div><br></div><div>Hello Andre and Adam...</div><div>Thanks for your messages...I had hoped Adam, you would know what to do, since you interpret for Deaf-Blind, maybe you knew about web sites for your friends who are Deaf-Blind...but actually I realize that doesn't necessarily follow...</div><div><br></div><div>And for Mac users it is much easier...the Mac can reverse the entire screen and the reversal is not dependent on any one web browser or kind of software...it is built into the operating system...</div><div><br></div><div>But Andre is on Windows and in Windows it depends on the web browser I believe...</div><div><br></div><div>The only thing I can guess is that the images for the symbols that i used to create the links to the Animated GIFs...those images in the group directories for each symbol have a transparent background...maybe if I make the pngs with a white background, then when Andre reverses his web browser to see a negative of the images it will be able to reverse properly...I will try that later this week Andre...</div><div><br></div><div>Meanwhile I am happy you can see the Animated GIFs themselves...that is all that really matters!</div><div><br></div><div>Val ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>----------</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Nov 30, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div bgcolor="#000000" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="font-size: 8px; "><strong style="font-size: 8px; "><font face="Arial" size="6" style="font-size: 19px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">Hi Val,</font></font></strong></div><div style="font-size: 8px; "><strong style="font-size: 8px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" style="font-size: 8px; "><font face="Arial" size="6" style="font-size: 19px; "></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" style="font-size: 8px; "> </font></div><div style="font-size: 8px; "><strong style="font-size: 8px; "><font face="Arial" size="6" style="font-size: 19px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"> I tried to look at the front page of signwriting.org. I clicked on Lessons. I cannot see black backgrounds (hand groups and hand symbols).</font></font></strong></div><div style="font-size: 8px; "><strong style="font-size: 8px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" style="font-size: 8px; "><font face="Arial" size="6" style="font-size: 19px; "></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" style="font-size: 8px; "> </font></div><div style="font-size: 8px; "><strong style="font-size: 8px; "><font face="Arial" size="6" style="font-size: 19px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"> Regards,</font></font></strong></div><div style="font-size: 8px; "><strong style="font-size: 8px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" style="font-size: 8px; "><font face="Arial" size="6" style="font-size: 19px; "></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" style="font-size: 8px; "> </font></div><div style="font-size: 8px; "><strong style="font-size: 8px; "><font face="Arial" size="6" style="font-size: 19px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"> André</font></font></strong></div><blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-position: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="signwriting@mac.com" href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">Valerie Sutton</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SignWriting List</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="frost@signwriting.org" href="mailto:frost@signwriting.org">Adam Frost</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:41 PM</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div>SignWriting List<div>November 30, 2008</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>Andre -</div><div>The animated GIFs are Adam's, and the web pages were my design...so this has nothing to do with Steve's software...Are you asking us to create a special web page for Deaf-Blind?</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>Adam - Can you help us with this? I need to write some grants so we all have money to work...smile...</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>I guess we need to do a web site that is reversed like a negative versus a positive?</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>Can you view other web pages of mine, Andre? Like the front page of signwriting.org? Can you see that?</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>Val ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>--------</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">On Nov 30, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></font><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 16px/normal Arial; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div bgcolor="#000000" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">Hi Steve,</font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"></font> </div><div><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"> I would like to inform you that I cannot see all black backgrounds Ihand groups and hand symbols). I can see only animated GIF.</font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"></font> </div><div><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"> Best regards,</font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"></font> </div><div><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"> André</font></font></strong></div><blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="signwriting@mac.com" href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">Valerie Sutton</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SignWriting List</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="frost@signwriting.org" href="mailto:frost@signwriting.org">Adam Frost</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:00 PM</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div>SignWriting List<div>November 30, 2008</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>Hello Everyone!</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>Adam Frost has created animated GIFs of the ISWA handshapes in Group 1, Group 2 and Group 3...</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>Group 3 is around one-third completed...</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>Go to:</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>ISWA Animated GIFs Hands</div><div><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html</a></div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>And click on Groups 1, 2 and 3 to enjoy viewing Adam's animated handshapes with palm facing changes...</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>And you can move from one handshape to the next, using the navigation arrows on the top of each page...it is fun to watch them in succession....one handshape after the other!</div><div><strong><font face="Arial" color="#ffff00" size="6"></font></strong><strong><font face="Arial" size="6"></font></strong><br></div><div>These are very useful...I am planning to add signs that use these handshapes, written in SignWriting, underneath the animated GIFs...some have some signs already...</div><div><br></div><div>Val ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>-----------</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Nov 30, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">After some searching, I found the webpage with the GIF that I created. It isn't preatty yet because there is still some working being done, but it is here none the less.<div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html</a></div><div><br></div><div>Adam</div><div><br><div><div>On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I love this question, and I will tell you why. It shows that you have a handle on these handshapes, and you are thinking in real world sense.<div><br></div><div>As a Lexiconian in the truest sense (I'd love to make an ASL equivalent to the Webster Dictionary, but that would be a life work. *wink*), I have made the same observations that you have just made. I have also noticed that it is rare for native users to realize that they have their hands the way that you have just described. This is the reason that the ASL Puddle, which is a collaborative dictionary, usually has the first set. The other reason is that most people can read the first set easier than the latter. ;-) The reason I mention this is if and when I were able to create and ASL Webster-like dictionary, then there would be something about this in the usage or pronunciation guide. </div><div><br></div><div>I know that I am not teaching your class, so I don't know the students. But if I were teaching a class that I felt could handle it, I would include both in the lessons and tell them that the first set is more of a novice way of signing as well as the visual image of how a native internally imagines their signing but are actually doing it the second way. The reason is in order to do the first set the elbow has to be in an awkward position or the wrist has to be painfully bent, whereas the latter set does not.</div><div><br></div><div>So now that I have rambled, I will answer your questions. :-) If you want to have those concepts in the ASL Puddle, you are more than welcome to add them. In fact, I think it is better to have both of them so that people can compare. As for your second question, I have been creating GIFs of all of the current handshapes. Because of everyone being swamped with so many projects, it is coming along very slowly. I have done these handshapes that you have mentioned, but I don't know if they have been put up on the website yet. I am not sure exactly why you are asking because you do understand it just fine. I am also surprised that there isn't anything about the latter set of handshapes on the website. I just find that odd. So I will check to see if my GIFs are on the website or not. If not, maybe I can figure something out.</div><div><br></div><div>Hope this helps, and I am glad that Val caught this in Digest because I never saw it. As always feel free to ask questions. It is the way to learn. ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>Adam</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote class="" type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Verdana; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; "><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; ">"Natasha Escalada-Westland" <<a href="mailto:shash90@hotmail.com">shash90@hotmail.com</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; "><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; ">November 30, 2008 7:33:52 AM PST<br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; "><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; ">"SignWriting Listserve" <<a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; "><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; "><b>[sw-l] Handshape question, "Stand" and "Look"</b><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; "><b>Reply-To: </b></span><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; ">"SignWriting List" <<a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br></span></div><br><br>Greetings SW colleagues,<br> <br>I am developing a lesson on teaching classifers and I am debating which handshapes to use in my presentation. The ASL signpuddle dictionary cites:<br> <br><div style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; "><br></div><div align="left"><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(20, 79, 174); -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px; "><span><symbol.php></span></span></span> a<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">nd </font><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><span><symbol.php></span> as the handshapes for "stand" and "look-at" respectively.</font></span></span></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"></font> </div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">As I look at myself signing these, and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font>as I think of using them as classifiers to describe types or ways of standing or looking-at, I see the following actual handshapes used:</div><div align="left"> </div><div align="left"> </div><div align="left"><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(20, 79, 174); -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px; "><span><symbol.php></span></span></span> and <span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(20, 79, 174); -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px; "><span><symbol.php></span></span></span></div><div align="left"> </div><div align="left">The "Lessons in SignWriting Web Gallery" explanation of Handshape group 2 doesn't include the above handsapes, although I do understand them to mean index and middle fingers bent slightly at the proximal knuckle.</div><div align="left"> </div><div align="left">First question... Do the signs in the ASL SignPuddle need to be updated as written for these concepts? To keep the fingers straight requires unnatural lifting of the shoulder and elbow.</div><div align="left"> </div><div align="left">Second question... is there an updated lesson book or handshape list that includes the second set of handshapes somwhere on the SignWriting website?</div><div align="left"> </div><div align="left">Thank you!</div><br>Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.<br><a href="http://www.westlandasl.com/">www.westlandasl.com</a></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><br><br><br>____________________________________________<br><br>SW-L SignWriting List<br><br>Post Message<br><a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br><br>List Archives and Help<br><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br><br>Change Email Settings<br><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a></blockquote></div><br></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><hr><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><br><br><br>____________________________________________<br><br>SW-L SignWriting List<br><br>Post Message<br><a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br><br>List Archives and Help<br><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br><br>Change Email Settings<br><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><br></blockquote><br><br><br>____________________________________________<br><br>SW-L SignWriting List<br><br>Post Message<br><a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br><br>List Archives and Help<br><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br><br>Change Email Settings<br><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><hr><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><br><br><br>____________________________________________<br><br>SW-L SignWriting List<br><br>Post Message<br><a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br><br>List Archives and Help<br><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br><br>Change Email Settings<br><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><br></blockquote><br><br><br>____________________________________________<br><br>SW-L SignWriting List<br><br>Post Message<br><a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br><br>List Archives and Help<br><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br><br>Change Email Settings<br><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>