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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6>Hi Val,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> I tried to
look at the front page of signwriting.org. I clicked on Lessons. I
cannot see black backgrounds (hand groups and hand
symbols).</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6>
Regards,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6>
André</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #ffff00 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=signwriting@mac.com href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">Valerie
Sutton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SignWriting List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=frost@signwriting.org
href="mailto:frost@signwriting.org">Adam Frost</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:41
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA
Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>SignWriting List
<DIV>November 30, 2008</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Andre -</DIV>
<DIV>The animated GIFs are Adam's, and the web pages were my design...so this
has nothing to do with Steve's software...Are you asking us to create a
special web page for Deaf-Blind?</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Adam - Can you help us with this? I need to write some grants so we all
have money to work...smile...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I guess we need to do a web site that is reversed like a negative versus
a positive?</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Can you view other web pages of mine, Andre? Like the front page of
signwriting.org? Can you see that?</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Val ;-)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--------</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>On Nov 30, 2008, at 6:39 PM,
Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</FONT></DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Arial; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgcolor="#000000">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000>Hi Steve,</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000> I would like to inform you that I
cannot see all black backgrounds Ihand groups and hand symbols). I can
see only animated GIF.</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000> Best regards,</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000> André</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(255,255,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=signwriting@mac.com
href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">Valerie Sutton</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SignWriting List</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=frost@signwriting.org
href="mailto:frost@signwriting.org">Adam Frost</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:00
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA
Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>SignWriting List
<DIV>November 30, 2008</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hello Everyone!</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Adam Frost has created animated GIFs of the ISWA handshapes in Group
1, Group 2 and Group 3...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Group 3 is around one-third completed...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Go to:</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>ISWA Animated GIFs Hands</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html</A></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And click on Groups 1, 2 and 3 to enjoy viewing Adam's animated
handshapes with palm facing changes...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And you can move from one handshape to the next, using the navigation
arrows on the top of each page...it is fun to watch them in
succession....one handshape after the other!</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>These are very useful...I am planning to add signs that use these
handshapes, written in SignWriting, underneath the animated GIFs...some
have some signs already...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Val ;-)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>-----------</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 30, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">After
some searching, I found the webpage with the GIF that I created. It
isn't preatty yet because there is still some working being done, but it
is here none the less.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Adam</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">I
love this question, and I will tell you why. It shows that you have a
handle on these handshapes, and you are thinking in real world sense.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>As a Lexiconian in the truest sense (I'd love to make an
ASL equivalent to the Webster Dictionary, but that would be
a life work. *wink*), I have made the same observations that you have
just made. I have also noticed that it is rare for native users to
realize that they have their hands the way that you have just
described. This is the reason that the ASL Puddle, which is a
collaborative dictionary, usually has the first set. The other reason
is that most people can read the first set easier than the latter. ;-)
The reason I mention this is if and when I were able to create and ASL
Webster-like dictionary, then there would be something about this in
the usage or pronunciation guide. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I know that I am not teaching your class, so I don't know the
students. But if I were teaching a class that I felt could handle it,
I would include both in the lessons and tell them that the first set
is more of a novice way of signing as well as the visual image of how
a native internally imagines their signing but are actually
doing it the second way. The reason is in order to do the first set
the elbow has to be in an awkward position or the wrist has
to be painfully bent, whereas the latter set does not.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>So now that I have rambled, I will answer your questions.
:-) If you want to have those concepts in the ASL Puddle, you are more
than welcome to add them. In fact, I think it is better to have both
of them so that people can compare. As for your second question, I
have been creating GIFs of all of the current handshapes. Because of
everyone being swamped with so many projects, it is coming
along very slowly. I have done these handshapes that you have
mentioned, but I don't know if they have been put up on the website
yet. I am not sure exactly why you are asking because you do
understand it just fine. I am also surprised that there isn't anything
about the latter set of handshapes on the website. I just find that
odd. So I will check to see if my GIFs are on the website or not. If
not, maybe I can figure something out.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hope this helps, and I am glad that Val caught this in Digest
because I never saw it. As always feel free to ask questions. It is
the way to learn. ;-)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Adam</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="" type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 13px Verdana; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>From: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">"Natasha
Escalada-Westland" <<A
href="mailto:shash90@hotmail.com">shash90@hotmail.com</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>Date: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">November 30, 2008
7:33:52 AM PST<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>To: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">"SignWriting
Listserve" <<A
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>Subject: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>[sw-l]
Handshape question, "Stand" and "Look"</B><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>Reply-To: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">"SignWriting List"
<<A
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV><BR><BR>Greetings
SW colleagues,<BR> <BR>I am developing a lesson on teaching
classifers and I am debating which handshapes to use in my
presentation. The ASL signpuddle dictionary
cites:<BR> <BR>
<DIV
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(20,79,174); -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px"><SPAN><symbol.php></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
a<FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>nd
</FONT><SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><SPAN><symbol.php></SPAN> as the
handshapes for "stand" and "look-at"
respectively.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>As I look
at myself signing these, and<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT>as I think of using
them as classifiers to describe types or ways of standing or
looking-at, I see the following actual handshapes used:</DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(20,79,174); -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px"><SPAN><symbol.php></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> and
<SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(20,79,174); -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px"><SPAN><symbol.php></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>The "Lessons in SignWriting Web Gallery" explanation
of Handshape group 2 doesn't include the above handsapes,
although I do understand them to mean index and middle fingers bent
slightly at the proximal knuckle.</DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>First question... Do the signs in the ASL
SignPuddle need to be updated as written for these concepts?
To keep the fingers straight requires unnatural lifting of the
shoulder and elbow.</DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>Second question... is there an updated lesson book
or handshape list that includes the second set of handshapes
somwhere on the SignWriting website?</DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>Thank you!</DIV><BR>Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed.
(D/HH), Macromedia Cert.<BR><A
href="http://www.westlandasl.com/">www.westlandasl.com</A></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR><BR><BR>____________________________________________<BR><BR>SW-L
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