<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">December 1, 2008</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Hello Andre and Adam!</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Many thanks for telling us...and thank you, Adam, for fixing our web pages...I am so happy it got resolved so easily!</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">And enjoy the Animated GIFs, Andre!</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Val ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">----------</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">On Dec 1, 2008, at 11:20 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div bgcolor="#000000" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Hi Adam, Val and everyone,</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> Adam and Val, thanks for changing the color background.</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> Everything is fine.</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> Hand waving</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> André</span></font></font></font></strong></div><blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">----- Original Message -----</span></font></font></div><div style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-position: initial initial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">From:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="icemandeaf@gmail.com" href="mailto:icemandeaf@gmail.com"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Adam Frost</span></font></font></a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">To:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font></a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Sent:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Monday, December 01, 2008 1:55 PM</span></font></font></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Subject:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">You should be able to see the symbols now. :-)</span></font></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Adam</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div bgcolor="#000000" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Hi Val, Adam and everyone,</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> Yes, I can see both animated GIFs and hand symbols. But, I don't know if I can see a group directory color.</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> Best regards,</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> André</span></font></font></font></strong></div><blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">----- Original Message -----</span></font></font></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">From:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="signwriting@mac.com" href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Valerie Sutton</span></font></font></a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">To:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font></a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Sent:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Monday, December 01, 2008 1:29 AM</span></font></font></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Subject:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">November 30, 2008</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Thank you, Adam. This is excellent information...thank you for researching this.</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Andre...I just changed the color background on one page...can you see this animation?</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group01/01-01-001-01.html"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group01/01-01-001-01.html</span></font></font></a></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">It now has a blue background...</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">If that doesn't work, can you tell me what color the background should be so you can see it?</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Val ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">-------</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:16 PM, Adam Frost wrote:</span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Actually, Andre has more vision than the Deaf-Blind student I work with. She can't see anything except general light and dark. Nothing in between. But I have other friends who have the similar vision that Andre seems to have, so I know what needs to be done. </span></font></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">I agree that the Mac works best, but gotta make due with what we have. :-)</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Unfortunately after I mimicked the screen that Andre was seeing, I realized that he could only see my hands in the GIFs and not the symbols as well as the symbols in the group directory. This is because Windows makes the background black and text white. It doesn't change the image color. So basically because we have a transparent background in our GIFs and pngs, the background becomes black. Since the symbols' outlines are black, all that can be seen are the white palm facings. </span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">I haven't found a solution yet, but I am working on it.</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Adam</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 8:38 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:</span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">November 30, 2008</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Hello Andre and Adam...</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Thanks for your messages...I had hoped Adam, you would know what to do, since you interpret for Deaf-Blind, maybe you knew about web sites for your friends who are Deaf-Blind...but actually I realize that doesn't necessarily follow...</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">And for Mac users it is much easier...the Mac can reverse the entire screen and the reversal is not dependent on any one web browser or kind of software...it is built into the operating system...</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">But Andre is on Windows and in Windows it depends on the web browser I believe...</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">The only thing I can guess is that the images for the symbols that i used to create the links to the Animated GIFs...those images in the group directories for each symbol have a transparent background...maybe if I make the pngs with a white background, then when Andre reverses his web browser to see a negative of the images it will be able to reverse properly...I will try that later this week Andre...</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Meanwhile I am happy you can see the Animated GIFs themselves...that is all that really matters!</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Val ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">----------</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 16px/normal Arial; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div bgcolor="#000000" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style=""><strong style=""><font face="Arial" style=""><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Hi Val,</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div style=""><strong style=""><font class="Apple-style-span" style=""><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial" style=""></font></span></font></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font class="Apple-style-span" style=""></font> </span></font></font></div><div style=""><strong style=""><font face="Arial" style=""><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> I tried to look at the front page of signwriting.org. I clicked on Lessons. I cannot see black backgrounds (hand groups and hand symbols).</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div style=""><strong style=""><font class="Apple-style-span" style=""><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial" style=""></font></span></font></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font class="Apple-style-span" style=""></font> </span></font></font></div><div style=""><strong style=""><font face="Arial" style=""><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> Regards,</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div style=""><strong style=""><font class="Apple-style-span" style=""><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial" style=""></font></span></font></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font class="Apple-style-span" style=""></font> </span></font></font></div><div style=""><strong style=""><font face="Arial" style=""><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> André</span></font></font></font></strong></div><blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">----- Original Message -----</span></font></font></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">From:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="signwriting@mac.com" href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Valerie Sutton</span></font></font></a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">To:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font></a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Cc:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="frost@signwriting.org" href="mailto:frost@signwriting.org"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Adam Frost</span></font></font></a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Sent:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:41 PM</span></font></font></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Subject:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">November 30, 2008</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Andre -</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">The animated GIFs are Adam's, and the web pages were my design...so this has nothing to do with Steve's software...Are you asking us to create a special web page for Deaf-Blind?</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Adam - Can you help us with this? I need to write some grants so we all have money to work...smile...</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">I guess we need to do a web site that is reversed like a negative versus a positive?</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Can you view other web pages of mine, Andre? Like the front page of signwriting.org? Can you see that?</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Val ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">--------</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 16px/normal Arial; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div bgcolor="#000000" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Hi Steve,</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> I would like to inform you that I cannot see all black backgrounds Ihand groups and hand symbols). I can see only animated GIF.</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> Best regards,</span></font></font></font></strong></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div><strong><font face="Arial"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> André</span></font></font></font></strong></div><blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">----- Original Message -----</span></font></font></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">From:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="signwriting@mac.com" href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Valerie Sutton</span></font></font></a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">To:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font></a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Cc:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="frost@signwriting.org" href="mailto:frost@signwriting.org"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Adam Frost</span></font></font></a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Sent:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:00 PM</span></font></font></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Subject:</span></font></font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">[sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">November 30, 2008</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Hello Everyone!</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Adam Frost has created animated GIFs of the ISWA handshapes in Group 1, Group 2 and Group 3...</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Group 3 is around one-third completed...</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Go to:</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">ISWA Animated GIFs Hands</span></font></font></div><div><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html</span></font></font></a></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">And click on Groups 1, 2 and 3 to enjoy viewing Adam's animated handshapes with palm facing changes...</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">And you can move from one handshape to the next, using the navigation arrows on the top of each page...it is fun to watch them in succession....one handshape after the other!</span></font></font></div><div><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></strong><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">These are very useful...I am planning to add signs that use these handshapes, written in SignWriting, underneath the animated GIFs...some have some signs already...</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Val ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">-----------</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">After some searching, I found the webpage with the GIF that I created. It isn't preatty yet because there is still some working being done, but it is here none the less.</span></font></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html</span></font></font></a></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Adam</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">I love this question, and I will tell you why. It shows that you have a handle on these handshapes, and you are thinking in real world sense.</span></font></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">As a Lexiconian in the truest sense (I'd love to make an ASL equivalent to the Webster Dictionary, but that would be a life work. *wink*), I have made the same observations that you have just made. I have also noticed that it is rare for native users to realize that they have their hands the way that you have just described. This is the reason that the ASL Puddle, which is a collaborative dictionary, usually has the first set. The other reason is that most people can read the first set easier than the latter. ;-) The reason I mention this is if and when I were able to create and ASL Webster-like dictionary, then there would be something about this in the usage or pronunciation guide. </span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">I know that I am not teaching your class, so I don't know the students. But if I were teaching a class that I felt could handle it, I would include both in the lessons and tell them that the first set is more of a novice way of signing as well as the visual image of how a native internally imagines their signing but are actually doing it the second way. The reason is in order to do the first set the elbow has to be in an awkward position or the wrist has to be painfully bent, whereas the latter set does not.</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">So now that I have rambled, I will answer your questions. :-) If you want to have those concepts in the ASL Puddle, you are more than welcome to add them. In fact, I think it is better to have both of them so that people can compare. As for your second question, I have been creating GIFs of all of the current handshapes. Because of everyone being swamped with so many projects, it is coming along very slowly. I have done these handshapes that you have mentioned, but I don't know if they have been put up on the website yet. I am not sure exactly why you are asking because you do understand it just fine. I am also surprised that there isn't anything about the latter set of handshapes on the website. I just find that odd. So I will check to see if my GIFs are on the website or not. If not, maybe I can figure something out.</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Hope this helps, and I am glad that Val caught this in Digest because I never saw it. As always feel free to ask questions. It is the way to learn. ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Adam</span></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:</span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></font></font><blockquote class="" type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal Verdana; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-family: Helvetica; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">From: </span></font></font></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">"Natasha Escalada-Westland" <</span></font></font><a href="mailto:shash90@hotmail.com"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">shash90@hotmail.com</span></font></font></a><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">><br></span></font></font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-family: Helvetica; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Date: </span></font></font></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">November 30, 2008 7:33:52 AM PST<br></span></font></font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-family: Helvetica; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">To: </span></font></font></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">"SignWriting Listserve" <</span></font></font><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</span></font></font></a><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">><br></span></font></font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-family: Helvetica; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Subject: </span></font></font></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">[sw-l] Handshape question, "Stand" and "Look"</span></font></font></b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-family: Helvetica; "><b><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Reply-To: </span></font></font></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">"SignWriting List" <</span></font></font><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</span></font></font></a><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">><br></span></font></font></span></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br><br>Greetings SW colleagues,<br> <br>I am developing a lesson on teaching classifers and I am debating which handshapes to use in my presentation. The ASL signpuddle dictionary cites:<br> <br></span></font></font><div style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div align="left"><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px; "><span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><symbol.php></span></font></font></span></span></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> and </span></font></font><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px; "><span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><symbol.php></span></font></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> as the handshapes for "stand" and "look-at" respectively.</span></font></font></span></span></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">As I look at myself signing these, and</span></font></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">as I think of using them as classifiers to describe types or ways of standing or looking-at, I see the following actual handshapes used:</span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px; "><span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><symbol.php></span></font></font></span></span></span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> and </span></font></font><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px; "><span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><symbol.php></span></font></font></span></span></span></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">The "Lessons in SignWriting Web Gallery" explanation of Handshape group 2 doesn't include the above handsapes, although I do understand them to mean index and middle fingers bent slightly at the proximal knuckle.</span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">First question... Do the signs in the ASL SignPuddle need to be updated as written for these concepts? To keep the fingers straight requires unnatural lifting of the shoulder and elbow.</span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Second question... is there an updated lesson book or handshape list that includes the second set of handshapes somwhere on the SignWriting website?</span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Thank you!</span></font></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br>Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.<br></span></font></font><a href="http://www.westlandasl.com/"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">www.westlandasl.com</span></font></font></a></span></blockquote></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div></div></blockquote></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><br><br><br>____________________________________________<br><br>SW-L SignWriting List<br><br>Post Message<br></span></font></font><a 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