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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6>Hi Adam, Val and
everyone,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> Adam and
Val, thanks for changing the color background.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> Everything
is fine.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> Hand
waving</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6>
André</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #ffff00 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=icemandeaf@gmail.com href="mailto:icemandeaf@gmail.com">Adam
Frost</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SignWriting List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 01, 2008 1:55
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA
Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>You should be able to see the symbols now. :-)
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Adam</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgcolor="#000000">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6>Hi Val, Adam and
everyone,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> Yes, I
can see both animated GIFs and hand symbols. But, I don't know if I
can see a group directory color.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> Best
regards,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6>
André</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(255,255,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=signwriting@mac.com
href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">Valerie Sutton</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SignWriting List</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Monday, December 01, 2008 1:29
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA
Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>SignWriting List
<DIV>November 30, 2008</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thank you, Adam. This is excellent information...thank you for
researching this.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Andre...I just changed the color background on one page...can you see
this animation?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group01/01-01-001-01.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group01/01-01-001-01.html</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>It now has a blue background...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>If that doesn't work, can you tell me what color the background
should be so you can see it?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Val ;-)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>-------</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:16 PM, Adam Frost wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">Actually,
Andre has more vision than the Deaf-Blind student I work with. She can't
see anything except general light and dark. Nothing in between. But I
have other friends who have the similar vision that Andre seems to have,
so I know what needs to be done.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I agree that the Mac works best, but gotta make due with what we
have. :-)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Unfortunately after I mimicked the screen that Andre
was seeing, I realized that he could only see my hands in the GIFs and
not the symbols as well as the symbols in the group directory. This is
because Windows makes the background black and text white. It doesn't
change the image color. So basically because we have a transparent
background in our GIFs and pngs, the background becomes black.
Since the symbols' outlines are black, all that can be seen are the
white palm facings. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I haven't found a solution yet, but I am working on it.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Adam</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 30, 2008, at 8:38 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">SignWriting
List
<DIV>November 30, 2008</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hello Andre and Adam...</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for your messages...I had hoped Adam, you would know what
to do, since you interpret for Deaf-Blind, maybe you knew about web
sites for your friends who are Deaf-Blind...but actually I realize
that doesn't necessarily follow...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And for Mac users it is much easier...the Mac can reverse the
entire screen and the reversal is not dependent on any one web browser
or kind of software...it is built into the operating system...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>But Andre is on Windows and in Windows it depends on the web
browser I believe...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The only thing I can guess is that the images for the symbols
that i used to create the links to the Animated GIFs...those images in
the group directories for each symbol have a transparent
background...maybe if I make the pngs with a white background, then
when Andre reverses his web browser to see a negative of the images it
will be able to reverse properly...I will try that later this week
Andre...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Meanwhile I am happy you can see the Animated GIFs
themselves...that is all that really matters!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Val ;-)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>----------</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 30, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Arial; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgcolor="#000000">
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><STRONG style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 19px" face=Arial size=6><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>Hi
Val,</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><STRONG style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><FONT
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px" color=#000000><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 19px" face=Arial
size=6></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 8px" color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><STRONG style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 19px" face=Arial size=6><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000> I tried to
look at the front page of signwriting.org. I clicked on
Lessons. I cannot see black backgrounds (hand groups and hand
symbols).</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><STRONG style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><FONT
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px" color=#000000><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 19px" face=Arial
size=6></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 8px" color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><STRONG style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 19px" face=Arial size=6><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>
Regards,</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><STRONG style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><FONT
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px" color=#000000><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 19px" face=Arial
size=6></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 8px" color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><STRONG style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 19px" face=Arial size=6><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>
André</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(255,255,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=signwriting@mac.com
href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">Valerie Sutton</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SignWriting
List</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=frost@signwriting.org
href="mailto:frost@signwriting.org">Adam Frost</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Sunday, November 30, 2008
9:41 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs
of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>SignWriting List
<DIV>November 30, 2008</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Andre -</DIV>
<DIV>The animated GIFs are Adam's, and the web pages were my
design...so this has nothing to do with Steve's software...Are you
asking us to create a special web page for Deaf-Blind?</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Adam - Can you help us with this? I need to write some grants
so we all have money to work...smile...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I guess we need to do a web site that is reversed like a
negative versus a positive?</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Can you view other web pages of mine, Andre? Like the front
page of signwriting.org? Can you see that?</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Val ;-)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--------</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>On Nov 30, 2008,
at 6:39 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</FONT></DIV><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Arial; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgcolor="#000000">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>Hi
Steve,</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT
face=Arial size=6></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000> I would
like to inform you that I cannot see all black backgrounds
Ihand groups and hand symbols). I can see only animated
GIF.</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT
face=Arial size=6></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000> Best
regards,</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT
face=Arial size=6></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>
André</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(255,255,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message
-----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=signwriting@mac.com
href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">Valerie Sutton</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SignWriting
List</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=frost@signwriting.org
href="mailto:frost@signwriting.org">Adam Frost</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Sunday, November 30,
2008 7:00 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[sw-l] Animated GIFs
of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>SignWriting List
<DIV>November 30, 2008</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hello Everyone!</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Adam Frost has created animated GIFs of the ISWA
handshapes in Group 1, Group 2 and Group 3...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Group 3 is around one-third completed...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Go to:</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>ISWA Animated GIFs Hands</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html</A></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And click on Groups 1, 2 and 3 to enjoy viewing Adam's
animated handshapes with palm facing changes...</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And you can move from one handshape to the next, using
the navigation arrows on the top of each page...it is fun to
watch them in succession....one handshape after the
other!</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00
size=6></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=Arial
size=6></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>
<DIV>These are very useful...I am planning to add signs that
use these handshapes, written in SignWriting, underneath the
animated GIFs...some have some signs already...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Val ;-)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>-----------</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 30, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">After
some searching, I found the webpage with the GIF that I
created. It isn't preatty yet because there is still some
working being done, but it is here none the less.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Adam</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">I
love this question, and I will tell you why. It shows that
you have a handle on these handshapes, and you are
thinking in real world sense.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>As a Lexiconian in the truest sense (I'd love to make
an ASL equivalent to the Webster Dictionary, but
that would be a life work. *wink*), I have made the same
observations that you have just made. I have also noticed
that it is rare for native users to realize that they have
their hands the way that you have just described. This is
the reason that the ASL Puddle, which is a collaborative
dictionary, usually has the first set. The other reason is
that most people can read the first set easier than the
latter. ;-) The reason I mention this is if and when I
were able to create and ASL Webster-like dictionary, then
there would be something about this in the usage
or pronunciation guide. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I know that I am not teaching your class, so I don't
know the students. But if I were teaching a class that I
felt could handle it, I would include both in the lessons
and tell them that the first set is more of a novice way
of signing as well as the visual image of how a native
internally imagines their signing but are
actually doing it the second way. The reason is in order
to do the first set the elbow has to be in
an awkward position or the wrist has to be
painfully bent, whereas the latter set does not.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>So now that I have rambled, I will answer your
questions. :-) If you want to have those concepts in the
ASL Puddle, you are more than welcome to add them. In
fact, I think it is better to have both of them so that
people can compare. As for your second question, I have
been creating GIFs of all of the current handshapes.
Because of everyone being swamped with so many
projects, it is coming along very slowly. I have done
these handshapes that you have mentioned, but I don't know
if they have been put up on the website yet. I am not sure
exactly why you are asking because you do understand it
just fine. I am also surprised that there isn't anything
about the latter set of handshapes on the website. I just
find that odd. So I will check to see if my GIFs are on
the website or not. If not, maybe I can figure something
out.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hope this helps, and I am glad that Val caught this
in Digest because I never saw it. As always feel free to
ask questions. It is the way to learn. ;-)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Adam</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Valerie Sutton
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="" type="cite"><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 13px Verdana; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>From: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">"Natasha
Escalada-Westland" <<A
href="mailto:shash90@hotmail.com">shash90@hotmail.com</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>Date: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">November
30, 2008 7:33:52 AM PST<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>To: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">"SignWriting
Listserve" <<A
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>Subject: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>[sw-l]
Handshape question, "Stand" and
"Look"</B><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><B>Reply-To: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">"SignWriting
List" <<A
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV><BR><BR>Greetings
SW colleagues,<BR> <BR>I am developing a lesson on
teaching classifers and I am debating which handshapes
to use in my presentation. The ASL signpuddle
dictionary cites:<BR> <BR>
<DIV
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(20,79,174); -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px"><SPAN><symbol.php></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
a<FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>nd
</FONT><SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px"><FONT
class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><SPAN><symbol.php></SPAN>
as the handshapes for "stand" and "look-at"
respectively.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000>As I look at myself signing these,
and<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT>as I
think of using them as classifiers to describe types or
ways of standing or looking-at, I see the following
actual handshapes used:</DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(20,79,174); -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px"><SPAN><symbol.php></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> and
<SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: rgb(20,79,174); -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1px"><SPAN><symbol.php></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>The "Lessons in SignWriting Web Gallery"
explanation of Handshape group 2 doesn't include
the above handsapes, although I do understand them
to mean index and middle fingers bent slightly at the
proximal knuckle.</DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>First question... Do the signs in
the ASL SignPuddle need to be updated as written for
these concepts? To keep the fingers straight
requires unnatural lifting of the shoulder and
elbow.</DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>Second question... is there an updated
lesson book or handshape list that includes the second
set of handshapes somwhere on the SignWriting
website?</DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>Thank you!</DIV><BR>Natasha
Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.<BR><A
href="http://www.westlandasl.com/">www.westlandasl.com</A></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR><BR><BR>____________________________________________<BR><BR>SW-L
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