Hi all, <br><br>animated gifs are what we always needed. <br>great job. <br>looking forward all that work is finished ;)<br>good luck with all that.<br><br>Honza<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Valerie Sutton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">signwriting@mac.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div style=""><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font><div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">December 1, 2008</span></font></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Hello Andre and Adam!</span></font></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Many thanks for telling us...and thank you, Adam, for fixing our web pages...I am so happy it got resolved so easily!</span></font></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">And enjoy the Animated GIFs, Andre!</span></font></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Val ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">----------</span></font></font></div>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">On Dec 1, 2008, at 11:20 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</span></font></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div bgcolor="#000000" style="">
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Hi Adam, Val and everyone,</span></font></font></font></b></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> Adam and Val, thanks for changing the color background.</span></font></font></font></b></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> Everything is fine.</span></font></font></font></b></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> Hand waving</span></font></font></font></b></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> André</span></font></font></font></b></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(255, 255, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">----- Original Message -----</span></font></font></div><div style="background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">From:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="icemandeaf@gmail.com" href="mailto:icemandeaf@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Adam Frost</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">To:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Sent:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Monday, December 01, 2008 1:55 PM</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Subject:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">You should be able to see the symbols now. :-)</span></font></font><div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Adam</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font><div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</span></font></font></div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><span style="word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><div bgcolor="#000000" style="">
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Hi Val, Adam and everyone,</span></font></font></font></b></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> Yes, I can see both animated GIFs and hand symbols. But, I don't know if I can see a group directory color.</span></font></font></font></b></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> Best regards,</span></font></font></font></b></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> André</span></font></font></font></b></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(255, 255, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">----- Original Message -----</span></font></font></div><div style="background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">From:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="signwriting@mac.com" href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Valerie Sutton</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">To:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Sent:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Monday, December 01, 2008 1:29 AM</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Subject:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">November 30, 2008</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Thank you, Adam. This is excellent information...thank you for researching this.</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Andre...I just changed the color background on one page...can you see this animation?</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group01/01-01-001-01.html" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group01/01-01-001-01.html</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">It now has a blue background...</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">If that doesn't work, can you tell me what color the background should be so you can see it?</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Val ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">-------</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:16 PM, Adam Frost wrote:</span></font></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><div style=""><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Actually, Andre has more vision than the Deaf-Blind student I work with. She can't see anything except general light and dark. Nothing in between. But I have other friends who have the similar vision that Andre seems to have, so I know what needs to be done. </span></font></font><div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">I agree that the Mac works best, but gotta make due with what we have. :-)</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Unfortunately after I mimicked the screen that Andre was seeing, I realized that he could only see my hands in the GIFs and not the symbols as well as the symbols in the group directory. This is because Windows makes the background black and text white. It doesn't change the image color. So basically because we have a transparent background in our GIFs and pngs, the background becomes black. Since the symbols' outlines are black, all that can be seen are the white palm facings. </span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">I haven't found a solution yet, but I am working on it.</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Adam</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font><div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 8:38 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:</span></font></font></div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><div style=""><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">November 30, 2008</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Hello Andre and Adam...</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Thanks for your messages...I had hoped Adam, you would know what to do, since you interpret for Deaf-Blind, maybe you knew about web sites for your friends who are Deaf-Blind...but actually I realize that doesn't necessarily follow...</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">And for Mac users it is much easier...the Mac can reverse the entire screen and the reversal is not dependent on any one web browser or kind of software...it is built into the operating system...</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">But Andre is on Windows and in Windows it depends on the web browser I believe...</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">The only thing I can guess is that the images for the symbols that i used to create the links to the Animated GIFs...those images in the group directories for each symbol have a transparent background...maybe if I make the pngs with a white background, then when Andre reverses his web browser to see a negative of the images it will be able to reverse properly...I will try that later this week Andre...</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Meanwhile I am happy you can see the Animated GIFs themselves...that is all that really matters!</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Val ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">----------</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</span></font></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><span style="word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><div bgcolor="#000000" style="">
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Hi Val,</span></font></font></font></b></div><div><b><font><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font></font> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> I tried to look at the front page of <a href="http://signwriting.org" target="_blank">signwriting.org</a>. I clicked on Lessons. I cannot see black backgrounds (hand groups and hand symbols).</span></font></font></font></b></div>
<div><b><font><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font></font> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> Regards,</span></font></font></font></b></div><div><b><font><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font></font> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> André</span></font></font></font></b></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(255, 255, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">----- Original Message -----</span></font></font></div><div style="background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">From:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="signwriting@mac.com" href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Valerie Sutton</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">To:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Cc:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="frost@signwriting.org" href="mailto:frost@signwriting.org" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Adam Frost</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Sent:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:41 PM</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Subject:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">November 30, 2008</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Andre -</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">The animated GIFs are Adam's, and the web pages were my design...so this has nothing to do with Steve's software...Are you asking us to create a special web page for Deaf-Blind?</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Adam - Can you help us with this? I need to write some grants so we all have money to work...smile...</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">I guess we need to do a web site that is reversed like a negative versus a positive?</span></font></font></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Can you view other web pages of mine, Andre? Like the front page of <a href="http://signwriting.org" target="_blank">signwriting.org</a>? Can you see that?</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Val ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">--------</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</span></font></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><span style="word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><div bgcolor="#000000" style="">
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Hi Steve,</span></font></font></font></b></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> I would like to inform you that I cannot see all black backgrounds Ihand groups and hand symbols). I can see only animated GIF.</span></font></font></font></b></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> Best regards,</span></font></font></font></b></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> André</span></font></font></font></b></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(255, 255, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">----- Original Message -----</span></font></font></div><div style="background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">From:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="signwriting@mac.com" href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Valerie Sutton</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">To:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Cc:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><a title="frost@signwriting.org" href="mailto:frost@signwriting.org" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Adam Frost</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Sent:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:00 PM</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Subject:</span></font></font></b><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">[sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">SignWriting List</span></font></font><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">November 30, 2008</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Hello Everyone!</span></font></font></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Adam Frost has created animated GIFs of the ISWA handshapes in Group 1, Group 2 and Group 3...</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Group 3 is around one-third completed...</span></font></font></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Go to:</span></font></font></div><div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">ISWA Animated GIFs Hands</span></font></font></div><div><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">And click on Groups 1, 2 and 3 to enjoy viewing Adam's animated handshapes with palm facing changes...</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">And you can move from one handshape to the next, using the navigation arrows on the top of each page...it is fun to watch them in succession....one handshape after the other!</span></font></font></div>
<div><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Arial"></font></span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">These are very useful...I am planning to add signs that use these handshapes, written in SignWriting, underneath the animated GIFs...some have some signs already...</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Val ;-)</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">-----------</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</span></font></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><div style=""><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">After some searching, I found the webpage with the GIF that I created. It isn't preatty yet because there is still some working being done, but it is here none the less.</span></font></font><div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html</span></font></font></a></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Adam</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font><div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</span></font></font></div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><div style=""><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">I love this question, and I will tell you why. It shows that you have a handle on these handshapes, and you are thinking in real world sense.</span></font></font><div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">As a Lexiconian in the truest sense (I'd love to make an ASL equivalent to the Webster Dictionary, but that would be a life work. *wink*), I have made the same observations that you have just made. I have also noticed that it is rare for native users to realize that they have their hands the way that you have just described. This is the reason that the ASL Puddle, which is a collaborative dictionary, usually has the first set. The other reason is that most people can read the first set easier than the latter. ;-) The reason I mention this is if and when I were able to create and ASL Webster-like dictionary, then there would be something about this in the usage or pronunciation guide. </span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">I know that I am not teaching your class, so I don't know the students. But if I were teaching a class that I felt could handle it, I would include both in the lessons and tell them that the first set is more of a novice way of signing as well as the visual image of how a native internally imagines their signing but are actually doing it the second way. The reason is in order to do the first set the elbow has to be in an awkward position or the wrist has to be painfully bent, whereas the latter set does not.</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">So now that I have rambled, I will answer your questions. :-) If you want to have those concepts in the ASL Puddle, you are more than welcome to add them. In fact, I think it is better to have both of them so that people can compare. As for your second question, I have been creating GIFs of all of the current handshapes. Because of everyone being swamped with so many projects, it is coming along very slowly. I have done these handshapes that you have mentioned, but I don't know if they have been put up on the website yet. I am not sure exactly why you are asking because you do understand it just fine. I am also surprised that there isn't anything about the latter set of handshapes on the website. I just find that odd. So I will check to see if my GIFs are on the website or not. If not, maybe I can figure something out.</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Hope this helps, and I am glad that Val caught this in Digest because I never saw it. As always feel free to ask questions. It is the way to learn. ;-)</span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Adam</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></div><div><div><div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:</span></font></font></div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font><blockquote type="cite"><span style="word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">From: </span></font></font></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">"Natasha Escalada-Westland" <</span></font></font><a href="mailto:shash90@hotmail.com" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">shash90@hotmail.com</span></font></font></a><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">><br>
</span></font></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Date: </span></font></font></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">November 30, 2008 7:33:52 AM PST<br>
</span></font></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">To: </span></font></font></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">"SignWriting Listserve" <</span></font></font><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</span></font></font></a><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">><br>
</span></font></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Subject: </span></font></font></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">[sw-l] Handshape question, "Stand" and "Look"</span></font></font></b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></font></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><b><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Reply-To: </span></font></font></b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">"SignWriting List" <</span></font></font><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</span></font></font></a><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">><br>
</span></font></font></span></div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br><br>Greetings SW colleagues,<br> <br>I am developing a lesson on teaching classifers and I am debating which handshapes to use in my presentation. The ASL signpuddle dictionary cites:<br>
<br></span></font></font><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div align="left"><span><span><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><symbol.php></span></font></font></span></span></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> and </span></font></font><span><span><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><symbol.php></span></font></font></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> as the handshapes for "stand" and "look-at" respectively.</span></font></font></span></span></div>
<div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">As I look at myself signing these, and</span></font></font><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">as I think of using them as classifiers to describe types or ways of standing or looking-at, I see the following actual handshapes used:</span></font></font></div>
<div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div>
<div align="left"><span><span><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><symbol.php></span></font></font></span></span></span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> and </span></font></font><span><span><span><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><symbol.php></span></font></font></span></span></span></div>
<div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">The "Lessons in SignWriting Web Gallery" explanation of Handshape group 2 doesn't include the above handsapes, although I do understand them to mean index and middle fingers bent slightly at the proximal knuckle.</span></font></font></div>
<div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">First question... Do the signs in the ASL SignPuddle need to be updated as written for these concepts? To keep the fingers straight requires unnatural lifting of the shoulder and elbow.</span></font></font></div>
<div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Second question... is there an updated lesson book or handshape list that includes the second set of handshapes somwhere on the SignWriting website?</span></font></font></div>
<div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"> </span></font></font></div><div align="left"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Thank you!</span></font></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br>Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.<br></span></font></font><a href="http://www.westlandasl.com/" target="_blank"><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;">www.westlandasl.com</span></font></font></a></span></blockquote>
</div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div></div></blockquote></div><font color="#000000"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br></span></font></font></div>
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