<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I used it with kids in our elementary
program, as young as 4 years old (preschool) and they all read and wrote
a little bit. We didn't have the time(or administrative support)
to keep it going, sadly.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
---------------------------------<br>
Cherie Wren<br>
Georgia School for the Deaf<br>
232 Perry Farm Rd<br>
Cave Spring, GA 30124<br>
706-777-2328<br>
</font>
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<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">12/01/2008 01:56 PM</font>
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<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">SW-L Digest, Vol 17, Issue 5</font></table>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. how old children are using SignWriting? (Honza)<br>
2. Re: Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3... (Adam Frost)<br>
</font></tt><font size=2 color=#800080 face="sans-serif"><br>
----- Message from Honza <honza@ruce.cz> on Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:40:12
+0100 -----</font>
<table>
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<div align=right><font size=3><b>To:</b></font></div>
<td><font size=3>"SignWriting List" <sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu></font>
<tr>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=3><b>Subject:</b></font></div>
<td><font size=3>[sw-l] how old children are using SignWriting?</font></table>
<br><font size=3>hello everyone, especially you, who work as teachers in
Deaf Schools!<br>
<br>
I wanna ask you how old children are using SignWriting (at least reading)<br>
My Slovak colleague (opposite number) are making dictionary for children
of early age (2-6) with SignWriting as well. But I suppose that SignWriting
can use children at least at age of entering basic school (if they are
tought about SW). - at least 7 age. <br>
<br>
what are your experiences?<br>
thanks<br>
<br>
Honza</font><font size=2 color=#800080 face="sans-serif"><br>
----- Message from "Adam Frost" <icemandeaf@gmail.com>
on Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:55:16 -0800 -----</font>
<table>
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<div align=right><font size=3><b>To:</b></font></div>
<td><font size=3>"SignWriting List" <sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu></font>
<tr>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=3><b>Subject:</b></font></div>
<td><font size=3>Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group 1, 2 and
3...</font></table>
<br><font size=3>You should be able to see the symbols now. :-)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Adam</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=6 color=yellow face="Arial"><b>Hi Val, Adam and everyone,</b></font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=6 color=yellow face="Arial"><b> Yes, I can
see both animated GIFs and hand symbols. But, I don't know if I can
see a group directory color.</b></font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=6 color=yellow face="Arial"><b> Best regards,</b></font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=6 color=yellow face="Arial"><b> André</b></font>
<br><font size=1>----- Original Message -----</font>
<br><font size=1><b>From:</b> </font><a href=mailto:signwriting@mac.com><font size=1 color=blue><u>Valerie
Sutton</u></font></a>
<br><font size=1><b>To:</b> </font><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font size=1 color=blue><u>SignWriting
List</u></font></a>
<br><font size=1><b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 01, 2008 1:29 AM</font>
<br><font size=1><b>Subject:</b> Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands,
Group 1, 2 and 3...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>SignWriting List</font>
<br><font size=1>November 30, 2008</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Thank you, Adam. This is excellent information...thank
you for researching this.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Andre...I just changed the color background on one page...can
you see this animation?</font>
<br>
<br><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group01/01-01-001-01.html"><font size=1 color=blue><u>http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group01/01-01-001-01.html</u></font></a>
<br>
<br><font size=1>It now has a blue background...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>If that doesn't work, can you tell me what color the background
should be so you can see it?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Val ;-)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>-------</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=1>On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:16 PM, Adam Frost wrote:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Actually, Andre has more vision than the Deaf-Blind student
I work with. She can't see anything except general light and dark. Nothing
in between. But I have other friends who have the similar vision that Andre
seems to have, so I know what needs to be done. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>I agree that the Mac works best, but gotta make due with
what we have. :-)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Unfortunately after I mimicked the screen that Andre was
seeing, I realized that he could only see my hands in the GIFs and not
the symbols as well as the symbols in the group directory. This is because
Windows makes the background black and text white. It doesn't change the
image color. So basically because we have a transparent background in our
GIFs and pngs, the background becomes black. Since the symbols' outlines
are black, all that can be seen are the white palm facings. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>I haven't found a solution yet, but I am working on it.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Adam</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>On Nov 30, 2008, at 8:38 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>SignWriting List</font>
<br><font size=1>November 30, 2008</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Hello Andre and Adam...</font>
<br><font size=1>Thanks for your messages...I had hoped Adam, you would
know what to do, since you interpret for Deaf-Blind, maybe you knew about
web sites for your friends who are Deaf-Blind...but actually I realize
that doesn't necessarily follow...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>And for Mac users it is much easier...the Mac can reverse
the entire screen and the reversal is not dependent on any one web browser
or kind of software...it is built into the operating system...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>But Andre is on Windows and in Windows it depends on the
web browser I believe...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>The only thing I can guess is that the images for the
symbols that i used to create the links to the Animated GIFs...those images
in the group directories for each symbol have a transparent background...maybe
if I make the pngs with a white background, then when Andre reverses his
web browser to see a negative of the images it will be able to reverse
properly...I will try that later this week Andre...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Meanwhile I am happy you can see the Animated GIFs themselves...that
is all that really matters!</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Val ;-)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>----------</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=1>On Nov 30, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=6 face="Arial"><b>Hi Val,</b></font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=6 face="Arial"><b> I tried to look at the front
page of signwriting.org. I clicked on Lessons. I cannot see
black backgrounds (hand groups and hand symbols).</b></font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=6 face="Arial"><b> Regards,</b></font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=6 face="Arial"><b> André</b></font>
<br><font size=1>----- Original Message -----</font>
<br><font size=1><b>From:</b> </font><a href=mailto:signwriting@mac.com><font size=1 color=blue><u>Valerie
Sutton</u></font></a>
<br><font size=1><b>To:</b> </font><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font size=1 color=blue><u>SignWriting
List</u></font></a>
<br><font size=1><b>Cc:</b> </font><a href=mailto:frost@signwriting.org><font size=1 color=blue><u>Adam
Frost</u></font></a>
<br><font size=1><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:41 PM</font>
<br><font size=1><b>Subject:</b> Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands,
Group 1, 2 and 3...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>SignWriting List</font>
<br><font size=1>November 30, 2008</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Andre -</font>
<br><font size=1>The animated GIFs are Adam's, and the web pages were my
design...so this has nothing to do with Steve's software...Are you asking
us to create a special web page for Deaf-Blind?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Adam - Can you help us with this? I need to write some
grants so we all have money to work...smile...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>I guess we need to do a web site that is reversed like
a negative versus a positive?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Can you view other web pages of mine, Andre? Like the
front page of signwriting.org? Can you see that?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Val ;-)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>--------</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=1>On Nov 30, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=6 face="Arial"><b>Hi Steve,</b></font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=6 face="Arial"><b> I would like to inform you
that I cannot see all black backgrounds Ihand groups and hand symbols).
I can see only animated GIF.</b></font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=6 face="Arial"><b> Best regards,</b></font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=6 face="Arial"><b> André</b></font>
<br><font size=1>----- Original Message -----</font>
<br><font size=1><b>From:</b> </font><a href=mailto:signwriting@mac.com><font size=1 color=blue><u>Valerie
Sutton</u></font></a>
<br><font size=1><b>To:</b> </font><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font size=1 color=blue><u>SignWriting
List</u></font></a>
<br><font size=1><b>Cc:</b> </font><a href=mailto:frost@signwriting.org><font size=1 color=blue><u>Adam
Frost</u></font></a>
<br><font size=1><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:00 PM</font>
<br><font size=1><b>Subject:</b> [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA Hands, Group
1, 2 and 3...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>SignWriting List</font>
<br><font size=1>November 30, 2008</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Hello Everyone!</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Adam Frost has created animated GIFs of the ISWA handshapes
in Group 1, Group 2 and Group 3...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Group 3 is around one-third completed...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Go to:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>ISWA Animated GIFs Hands</font>
<br><a href=http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html><font size=1 color=blue><u>http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/category1.html</u></font></a>
<br>
<br><font size=1>And click on Groups 1, 2 and 3 to enjoy viewing Adam's
animated handshapes with palm facing changes...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>And you can move from one handshape to the next, using
the navigation arrows on the top of each page...it is fun to watch them
in succession....one handshape after the other!</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>These are very useful...I am planning to add signs that
use these handshapes, written in SignWriting, underneath the animated GIFs...some
have some signs already...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Val ;-)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>-----------</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=1>On Nov 30, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>After some searching, I found the webpage with the GIF
that I created. It isn't preatty yet because there is still some working
being done, but it is here none the less.</font>
<br>
<br><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html"><font size=1 color=blue><u>http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/iswa/group02/01-02-004-01.html</u></font></a>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Adam</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Adam Frost wrote:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>I love this question, and I will tell you why. It shows
that you have a handle on these handshapes, and you are thinking in real
world sense.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>As a Lexiconian in the truest sense (I'd love to make
an ASL equivalent to the Webster Dictionary, but that would be a life work.
*wink*), I have made the same observations that you have just made. I have
also noticed that it is rare for native users to realize that they have
their hands the way that you have just described. This is the reason that
the ASL Puddle, which is a collaborative dictionary, usually has the first
set. The other reason is that most people can read the first set easier
than the latter. ;-) The reason I mention this is if and when I were able
to create and ASL Webster-like dictionary, then there would be something
about this in the usage or pronunciation guide. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>I know that I am not teaching your class, so I don't know
the students. But if I were teaching a class that I felt could handle it,
I would include both in the lessons and tell them that the first set is
more of a novice way of signing as well as the visual image of how a native
internally imagines their signing but are actually doing it the second
way. The reason is in order to do the first set the elbow has to be in
an awkward position or the wrist has to be painfully bent, whereas the
latter set does not.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>So now that I have rambled, I will answer your questions.
:-) If you want to have those concepts in the ASL Puddle, you are more
than welcome to add them. In fact, I think it is better to have both of
them so that people can compare. As for your second question, I have been
creating GIFs of all of the current handshapes. Because of everyone being
swamped with so many projects, it is coming along very slowly. I have done
these handshapes that you have mentioned, but I don't know if they have
been put up on the website yet. I am not sure exactly why you are asking
because you do understand it just fine. I am also surprised that there
isn't anything about the latter set of handshapes on the website. I just
find that odd. So I will check to see if my GIFs are on the website or
not. If not, maybe I can figure something out.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Hope this helps, and I am glad that Val caught this in
Digest because I never saw it. As always feel free to ask questions. It
is the way to learn. ;-)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>Adam</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1>On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3><b>From: </b>"Natasha Escalada-Westland" <</font><a href=mailto:shash90@hotmail.com><font size=3 color=blue><u>shash90@hotmail.com</u></font></a><font size=3>></font>
<br><font size=3><b>Date: </b>November 30, 2008 7:33:52 AM PST</font>
<br><font size=3><b>To: </b>"SignWriting Listserve" <</font><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font size=3 color=blue><u>sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</u></font></a><font size=3>></font>
<br><font size=3><b>Subject: [sw-l] Handshape question, "Stand"
and "Look"</b></font>
<br><font size=3><b>Reply-To: </b>"SignWriting List" <</font><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><font size=3 color=blue><u>sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</u></font></a><font size=3>></font>
<br><font size=1><br>
<br>
Greetings SW colleagues,<br>
<br>
I am developing a lesson on teaching classifers and I am debating which
handshapes to use in my presentation. The ASL signpuddle dictionary
cites:<br>
</font>
<br>
<br><font size=1 color=#0041c2><symbol.php></font><font size=1>
and <symbol.php> as the handshapes for "stand"
and "look-at" respectively.</font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=1>As I look at myself signing these, and as I think of using
them as classifiers to describe types or ways of standing or looking-at,
I see the following actual handshapes used:</font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=1 color=#0041c2><symbol.php></font><font size=1> and
</font><font size=1 color=#0041c2><symbol.php></font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=1>The "Lessons in SignWriting Web Gallery" explanation
of Handshape group 2 doesn't include the above handsapes, although I do
understand them to mean index and middle fingers bent slightly at the proximal
knuckle.</font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=1>First question... Do the signs in the ASL SignPuddle
need to be updated as written for these concepts? To keep the fingers
straight requires unnatural lifting of the shoulder and elbow.</font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=1>Second question... is there an updated lesson book or
handshape list that includes the second set of handshapes somwhere on the
SignWriting website?</font>
<br><font size=1> </font>
<br><font size=1>Thank you!</font>
<br><font size=1><br>
Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.</font><font size=1 color=blue><u><br>
</u></font><a href=http://www.westlandasl.com/><font size=1 color=blue><u>www.westlandasl.com</u></font></a>
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