<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16735" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgColor=#000000>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6>Hi Val and
everyone,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> I am
honest that I get lost to understand between a standard rule and fingers
pointing (real life).</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> Recently,
I sent you my attached diagram by email. I am trying to explain
clearly. </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> Readers
look at the sign (image) for HAMBURGER (C) in LSQ which shows a black
palm of the right hand is facing down and fingers of the right
hand are pointing down while a white palm of the left hand is facing
up and fingers of the left hand are pointing down.
However, the readers know that their real palm facing and their real finger
pointing are up because the white palm facing helps me understand (standard
rule). However, Val mentioned that this sign is
incorrect.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> This is
your writing "ALLIGATOR". Readers look at a sign (image) for
ALLIGATOR in ASL which shows that a black palm of the right hand is
facing side and fingers of the right hand are pointing side while a
white palm of the left hand is facing side and fingers of the left hand are
pointing side. Readers know that their real palm facing of
the right hand and their real fingers pointing of the right hand are down,
and their real palm facing of the left hand and their real fingers
pointing of the left hand are up because the white and black palms facing
help me understand (standard rule). Val mentioned that this sign is
correct.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> This is my
writing (A) ALLIGATOR. Readers look at this sign (image) which show a
black palm of the right hand is facing down and fingers of
the right hand is pointing down while a white palm of the left
hand is facing up and fingers of the left hand is pointing up. I believe
that readers "assume" that their palms and fingers look like in a
real life (not a standard rule). It seems to me that Val mentioned that
this sign is incorrect.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6> Readers look at a sign
(image) for HAMBURGER (B) which shows a black palm of the right hand is facing
down and fingers of the right hand is pointing down while a white palm of the
right hand (not left hand) is facing up and fingers of the right hand (not
left hand) is pointing up. Readers "assume" that their hands and
fingers look like in a real life (not a standard rule). Val metioned
that this is correct. These right or left hands aren't
necessary. You remember that Stuart was confused and Ingvild
hurt her left hand for HAMBURGER (B).</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> I don't
know how to decide a writing for a standard rule (Center rule) or hands and
fingers in a real life.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6> Hand
waving</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6>
André</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#ffff00 size=6>
</FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=6></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #ffff00 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=signwriting@mac.com href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">Valerie
Sutton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SignWriting List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=atg@videotron.ca
href="mailto:atg@videotron.ca">Gagnon et Thibeault</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:19
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [sw-l] Animated GIFs of ISWA
Hands, Group 1, 2 and 3...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT
class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">SignWriting List</SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">December 2,
2008</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">Hello
Andre!</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">Your question is a
good one!</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">I can certainly
read your writing of Alligator, which is in my attached diagram (yours is
pasted to the right)...but technically your writing has the hands directed to
the side...the side view, like the hand in Hamburger that you mention, can
show the fingers directed up much better - you are right about that! But in my
example, I was writing it with the hands directed forward...so it is a
difference between the hands directed to the side wall, or directed straight
forward...we do not have an animated GIF for this handshape yet, or I could
show you better...</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">Please see attached diagram...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><IMG height=837
src="cid:001d01c954ae$e079a140$6900a8c0@ANDRE2" width=386 apple-height="yes"
apple-width="yes"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">On Dec 2, 2008, at
8:01 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT-VARIANT: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgcolor="#000000">
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">Hi Val and
everyone,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT
class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"> See your
attached diagram "ALLIGATOR". I am confused. I remember that you
told me that fingers look like in a real life. For example a sign
for HAMBURGER in LSQ (B) is correct because the finger of the left hand is
directed up and looks like in a real life. a sign (C) is
incorrect since the finger of the left hand is directed dowm and doesn't
look like in a real life.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT
class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"> This is my
writing (A) "ALLIGATOR" in ASL (here is my attachment) am I
right?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT
class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"> I would
like to know if your attached diagram "ALLIGATOR" is correct? Do these
fingers look like in a real
life? </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT
class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"> I am sorry
that I am still learning about
it.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT
class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"> Hand
waving</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><FONT
class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></STRONG><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">
André</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>