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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Hello Valerie, and sw-list friends, ... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I am following this discussion about the “rules” with
mixed feelings. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Valerie wrote ... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>“In the ISWA I was able to clean up some of
the old symbols that were not consistent with this Center Rule from years past,
in older software, so if we had been consistent with the Center Rule long ago,
I suspect that the Parkhurst rule about thumbs may not have been
necessary...but of course we cannot go back on the past and it is all ok ;-)
“ <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>What would happen in the classroom – smile
– just imagine a group of people who started to learn your Sutton
SignWriting notation back in the 70<sup>th</sup> as well as people who started
10 years ago or some who started 5 years ago and some who started 1 year ago
... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>I understand that all of us have an incredible
different personal biography – some of this group remember the time
without any software – so they started to write by hand and what they
wrote showed the receptive perspective. Some of us remember the times when
Richard Gleaves created in collaboration with Valerie this wonderfull DOS
– based SignWriter – program ( For several weeks we discussed
printing – problems – smile, and so many how to – questions)
–- Oversudden we felt trapped because Microsoft Windows changed from Win
98 to Windows XP and no DOS-Programm seemed to be functioning any longer. .We
got the new SignWriter Python program thanks to Lars ... And then another aera
started with the inginious SignPuddle and SignText software of Steve ..and I
bet there is much more to mention as you know ( SignBank, IMWA, E-lessons, ....
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>I had not been part of the group when you gave your
OK to change the perspective and to write from now on from the expressive point
of view. I am interested – do you know of any discussion – I mean
did you answer questions and doubts fom SignWriting-friends who felt
uncomfortable, who did not agree, who felt disturbed ... ? Did some people show
anger or did they express feelings of iritation?? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Obviously this decision does not cause any
problems today. Everybody seems to agree with that. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Just curious – perhaps some years later all
scribes agree to write SW in columns and smile at dinosaurs who kept on
writing from left to right?? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>But there are other aspects that ask for acceptance
or need to be clarified ... And – I do not know why – but it seems
as if this kind of discussion makes us somehow sensitive and vulnarable. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>I guess that all notation – systems that are
widely spread and that are used by many readers and writers have to face a
process of change – and nothing is bad about that. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Same with SignWriting? Well – some
spelling-violations in full knowledge of the “official rule” may
become an issue in such a discussion. In the past two years again and again
some people suggested to change this or that or to establish another rule ... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Hi Valerie – you know about my learning
– biographie – and yes years ago I liked this concept as taught in
the wonderfull “Signo Escritura” book a lot. And since that time we
happen to discuss this same problem again and again. And you keep trying to
explain this “Center rule” but looking at my hands and fingers –
specially if you follow a given sequence ( index – hand, V- Hand, three-
hand, three-claw – hand) my brain refuses to accept a spelling that
forces my right thumb to appear on the left side of the square – mh
– <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>I understand that this visualisation is part of a
misconception that I do not keep in mind 10-palmfacing – options and that
I vote for a different option – compared to you. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Well – of course you would be able to read
and understand my writing of a table-tennis ball in the right three fingers claw-hand
– smile – But nevertheless it would look somehow
“wrong” to you. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Same is true vice-versa. Looking at some of the
handshapes that are “forced” to follow the “Center
–rule” – I simply feel uncomfortable .. . Obviously some
other people like or accept this presentation .. Years ago you encouraged us to
write what we see. We took fotos and draw in thick lines handshapes and fingers
– smile - <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>This procedure would not work for the “few critical”
“center rule” hand shapes. So from this perspective we would have
to ignore or even violate the other rule “write what you see” <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Charles – you show up with an interesting
solution – just stick to the simple hand-shapes. This would avoid to deal
with Center-rule conflicts smile. On the other hand – What has been
wrong with the “thumb- rule” – since this provided a coherent
concept throughout all handshapes you may think of – I would be very much
interested to read any comment of Steve Parkhurst and others – <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Another option would be to say <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>... if we had been consistent with the
“thumbs rule “ long ago, I suspect that the discussion about how
to symbolize bent fingers would not have been necessary...but of course we can
discuss everything and it is all ok ;-) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>All the best <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Stefan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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