<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Well, as Val had mentioned before, books written in SignWriting aren't very commonplace, so this is all a test and see sort of thing. When I was first learning SignWriting, I liked that the page numbers were in SignWriting and not with Arabic numerals. However, now that I have gotten skilled with SignWriting and since it was first mentioned a short time ago, I am leaning more to the idea that page numbers might be better with Arabic numerals. I didn't mention anything before because it wasn't what was asked. ;-) But this is a really good question about how numbering pages in SignWritten books should go. I am curious how others feel. :-)<div><br></div><div>Adam</div><div><br><div><div>On Feb 8, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Natasha Escalada-Westland wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div class="hmmessage" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; ">Maybe this has been brought up before regarding page numbers, but I am curious, why can't the Arabic numerals be used? Written English (and many other written languages) numbers pages using 1, 2, 3 and so forth rather than one, two, three or uno, dos, tres. I'm wondering what the consensus is with regard to SignWriting?<br><br>Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.<br><a href="http://www.westlandasl.com/">www.westlandasl.com</a><br><br><br> <br><br><br><br><br>> From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br>> To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>> Subject: Re: [sw-l] Nominal vs Cardinal numbers in ASL<br>> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:43:28 -0800<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> SignWriting List<br>> February 8, 2009<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Thank you, Adam, for this really good explanation of the problem...and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> for your vote for nominal. That has always been my feeling too...<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> However, around four months ago I had a long discussion with another<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> native ASL signer about this and that person voted for the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> cardinal...so if you count my vote, then we have one cardinal and two<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> nominal, but i am not native or Deaf...so we need more opinions, or<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> maybe test readers and ask them to search for pages in the book only<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> using ASL numbers to see which works best for them finding the pages<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> fast...<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Any others have opinions on nominal or cardinal page numbers in ASL?<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Val ;-)<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> -----------<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> On Feb 8, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Adam Frost wrote:<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > A very fine line here because page numbers are counted pages which<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > number the page with a label. They are often used as both<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > interchangeably mostly because English doesn't distinguish between<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > both and most people don't know the difference. When thinking about<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > how I usually refer to pages, I usually use the cardinal form as I<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > am basically saying "turn 5 pages from the beginning" verses "turn<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > to page 5" which would use the nominal form. However, I think that<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > we are actually labeling the page as "Page 5" so I think that in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > this case it should be nominals that are used. I hope that makes<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > sense. Anyway, that is my 2 cents worth. (Hmm... would that 2 be<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > cardinal or nominal? Ha!) ;-)<br>> ><br>> > Adam<br>> ><br>> > On Feb 8, 2009, at 11:40 AM, SignWriting wrote:<br>> ><br>> >> SignWriting List<br>> >> February 8, 2009<br>> >><br>> >> Hi SW Listers!<br>> >> I need your advice. Most ASL numbers are the same whether they are<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> nominal or cardinal, but there are five that are different....the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> first five numbers are cardinal inside a sentence, but nominal when<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> telling people your phone number, your apartment number etc...I<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> believe that is correct anyway ;-))<br>> >><br>> >> In other words, the cardinal is part of meaning in a sentence, but<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> the nominal is like a "label"...like stating your Social Security<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> Number (a long number that represents a person in the US)...if it<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> has a lot of "ones"...like 111-897-1102...or something like<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> that...I don't believe the palm turns towards the chest when<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> stating your Social Security Number, does it?<br>> >><br>> >> So when reading tiny tiny page numbers at the bottom of pages in a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> 500 page SignWriting book, should the page numbers be nominal or<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> cardinal? I have always felt that the page numbers were like<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> "labels" for finding a page quickly...but others have disagreed<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> with me...meanwhile most people do not have a lot of experience<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> reading large books in SignWriting yet, including myself, so we all<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> are guessing a bit... It may really be a matter of all of us<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> getting used to this, and figuring out, by testing readers, who can<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> find page 1 faster...when it is nominal or cardinal? smile...<br>> >><br>> >> I am updating our old Goldilocks documents with the symbols of the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> ISWA and while I am doing that update anyway, I wondered about the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> >> page numbers...They were nominal in the old documents.<br>> >><br>> >> Should page numbers be nominal or cardinal? 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