<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Hmm. Looking at number 6 I'd only add the wrist flex line to ensure that the whole sequence stays in the only place and repeats itself. It's the repeat that's a challenge. <br><br>I put all the curves into a single line with a hold-in-place wrist. That looks clearer to me. <br><br><br>
<table border="1" cellpadding="5"><tbody><tr><td><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-003-01-02-10,129,115,02-01-006-01-01-01,111,55,02-01-006-01-01-01,154,136,01-05-003-01-02-04,147,97,01-05-003-01-02-10,1,108,02-06-001-02-03-07,110,106,01-05-003-01-02-04,21,88,02-01-006-01-01-01,37,113,01-05-003-01-02-12,86,57,01-05-003-01-02-02,102,75,02-06-001-02-04-03,57,67,02-03-001-03-04-02,75,74,02-03-001-03-04-02,89,88,02-03-001-05-03-08,42,75,"><p><b>liquid</b></p></td><td><p>fluid that is not a gas</p>
</td><td><table border="1" cellpadding="5"><tbody><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-05-003-01-02-10&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-05-003-01-02-04&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-01-006-01-01-01&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-03-001-05-03-08&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-06-001-02-04-03&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-05-003-01-02-12&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img
src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-05-003-01-02-02&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-01-006-01-01-01&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-03-001-03-04-02&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-03-001-03-04-02&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-05-003-01-02-04&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-05-003-01-02-10&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img
src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-01-006-01-01-01&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-06-001-02-03-07&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><p><font size="-1">Source: Charles Butler - variant<br>Modified: March 09, 2009 17:01<br>Puddle page 9916</font></p><br><br>Charles<br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 9, 2009 7:32:48 PM<br><b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> WG: AW: AW: [sw-l] movement in LIQUID<br></font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">Hi Valerie and
friends, </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">well - if I
should vote for any spelling I have seen so far I would prefer your Picture #6
- smile - </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">From the readers point
of view it provides as much information as needed - so I would not want to miss
any hands ... and it is not too much detail-writing! The challenge is to
present a spelling that allows the competent reader to understand the idea of
the scribe ...</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">And I agree
Charles – once a sign is explained as a representation of a now well
known performance you would accept any simplification - but that might be
the point – I would prefer a spelling that would not end up in a guessing
game. Movement Writing should allow us to describe the given performance as
accurate as possible. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">In addition to
that - I am wondering - just in case you do not want to move your hands to the
right side but just let them do this wave once and again - is there
a chance to add any symbol that would say - "no travelling" - but
move your hands as a unit along this path but stay in place?</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">Thank you very
much for this lesson!</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">Stefan ;-)</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">-----Ursprüngliche
Nachricht-----</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">Von: SignWriting [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:signwriting@mac.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com">mailto:signwriting@mac.com</a>]</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">Gesendet: Montag, 9. März
2009 04:30</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">An: SignWriting
List</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">Cc: Stefan
Woehrmann</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">Betreff: Re: AW:
[sw-l] movement in LIQUID</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">SignWriting List</span></font><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">March 8, 2009</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">On Mar 7, 2009,
at 11:39 AM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">> What I am interested
in is to proof that MovementWriting allows us to </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">> describe
even this kind of complex movement - and if so I would not </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">> mind to look
at a sequence of 4 or 8 signs that will indicate the </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">> different
"stills"</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">> that can be
seen during the whole movement.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">Hello Stefan!</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">I would feel very
honored, if you would apply your Movement Writing skills, or your SignWriting
skills, to writing this movement for us, from your perspective. How would you
write this movement, based on the frames you see in these photos? (see attached
below)</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">I know you are
very busy teaching, but when you have time it would be wonderful to see your
writing, not because we need to prove anything to anyone, but because it will
be good for the writing system to get your input...I think all of the attempts
so far, have highlighted different aspects of the movement, but no one decision
or final writing has been established so far, and I think that is good, to keep
discussing it from different perspectives. One thing that I have learned over
35 years is that people look at the same movement and see different things, and
choose to write different things, so "writing what you see" and also
"writing what you feel intuitively" is as complex as the human brain
is...</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">The reason that
SignWriting and Movement Writing have been used these</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">35 years is
because we have remained flexible and open to these kinds of discussions and
new ideas...that is how SignWriting slowly went from Receptive to Expressive,
and from horizontal to vertical, and so many other developments that happened
one by one, step by step, through contact with writers and an openness to
suggestions...</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">And the goals of
SignWriting and Movement Writing are somewhat different...In SignWriting, it is
my hope anyway, that we can find a way to write sign languages on a daily basis
that is detailed enough to make it possible to read every sign, but simple
enough to make reading fun and easy...that is a hard balance to find, where
Movement Writing, which is mostly for research, can be very very detailed...but
that is also why it is not used on a daily basis...</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">So if you wish to
write it from a Movement Writing perspective, or a SignWriting
perspective...both are very welcome and will give us much to discuss and think
about!</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB">Many thanks for
your nice message -</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">See attached...</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
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