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Hi Maria,<br>
I strongly agree that the receptive viewpoint should not be taught
to beginners. I remember a while back Val taught us how to change an
expressive writing to receptive. But even though it sounds easy it is
quite complex. The obvious is mirroring the sign right-left. But
there are other details that are important which even make it
challenging to write a program to switch from receptive to expressive
or vice-versa. So if you where to teach them receptive along with
expressive, they would naturally be interested in switching between the
two. Which is a difficult them even for intermediate signwriters.<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<br>
Here is what Val wrote back in April 2007:<br>
SignWriting List
<br>
April 15, 2007
<br>
<br>
Here are four differences:
<br>
<br>
1) to mirror the image
<br>
2) change the dominant fill
<br>
3) forward and back movement arrows reverse direction
<br>
4) forward and back projection of hands-fingers reverse direction
(palms facing the floor seen from the Top View)
<br>
<br>
and there are several more...
<br>
<br>
You can read about the Receptive View in the Lessons in SignWriting
Textbook online or in PDF:
<br>
<br>
Go to Chapter 15 on this web page:
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/lessonsw/lessonsweb.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/lessonsw/lessonsweb.html</a>
<br>
<br>
or download Number 4 on this web page:
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/lessonsw/">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/lessonsw/</a>
<br>
<br>
Val <span class="moz-smiley-s3"><span> ;-) </span></span>
<br>
<img alt="" src="cid:part1.06020908.02080304@gmail.com" height="572"
width="727"><br>
MARIA AZZOPARDI wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:41871b44c04a1ec1c10e2499fdfd780e.squirrel@secure.um.edu.mt"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thank you everyone for your contributions to my question. I will not
include the explanation of the receptive viewpoint - not to confuse anyone
:)
Thanks again,
Maria
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I was attracted to SignWriting with the newspaper and fell in love with
sign writing at that point. So 1981 it is, I was in seminary at the time,
and a lot of things were happening.
Charles
--- On Wed, 10/21/09, Valerie Sutton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"><sutton@signwriting.org></a> wrote:
From: Valerie Sutton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"><sutton@signwriting.org></a>
Subject: Re: [sw-l] receptive vs. expressive - history?
To: "SignWriting List" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu></a>
Cc: "MARIA AZZOPARDI" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt"><maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt></a>
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 1:19 PM
SignWriting List
October 21, 2009
Actually Tini and I knew each other since Copenhagen in 1970...isn't that
right Tini? We knew each other before the first book in DanceWriting was
published in 1973.
Did we really meet in 1978, Charles? I thought it was in the early 1980's.
Because I did not start working in the true sense, with SignWriting, until
1981. In 1978, we did have correspondence courses in DanceWriting from the
Boston Conservatory of Music and Tini was one of our students. But the
SignWriter Newspaper was first published in 1981, and I thought that was
how we met, Charles? So I thought it was around 1981 or 1982...but my
memory is poor too! funny isn't it..we are all getting old!
And DanceWriting can be seen as receptive, but actually it is neither
receptive nor expressive. DanceWriting is taken from the "stage view" and
adjusts to many viewpoints depending on the choice of the writer...So Tini
is correct that it can be written expressively and if that is what you are
doing Tini, that is fine!
Anyway, there is no question that the writing system can technically be
written from any viewpoint, but Gerard is correct. We have a world
standard when it comes to SignWriting and we need that for most teachers,
who are sooo busy and can only handle so much...so when we teach
SignWriting today, we teach the Expressive. That is what is natural to
most people. Most people are not writing from videotape. They are writing
directly in their own sign language...their daily primary language, and
they look at their own hands and feel their own face, and do not put
themselves in the position of an imaginary person facing them...
So everyone is welcome to teach as they wish, but Maria, if i were you, I
personally suggest teaching in the Expressive for SignWriting...I would
not throw both viewpoints at beginning students...it is too much for them
-
Val ;-)
-------
On Oct 21, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Tini Pel wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">You might be right at that Charles about 1978. I sometimes do get mixed
up about dates in my old age.
Tini.
On 21-Oct-09, at 9:25 AM, Charles Butler wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Ah, that's a bit of information I have not had, as I learned from
Valerie directly between 1978 and 1981. We both were switching over to
expressive at that point.
Charles
--- On Wed, 10/21/09, Tini Pel <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:tinipel@onlink.net"><tinipel@onlink.net></a> wrote:
From: Tini Pel <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:tinipel@onlink.net"><tinipel@onlink.net></a>
Subject: Re: [sw-l] receptive vs. expressive - history?
To: "SignWriting List" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu></a>
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 9:04 AM
Hi Charles,
Just a little note:
I write dance writing being behind the dancer, or I become the dancer.
Since the early ' 70-tees.
Have a great day
L.I.F.E.
Tini.
On 20-Oct-09, at 11:37 PM, Charles Butler wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">For me, I learned receptive first, so it was literally "write what you
see" when you are seeing someone else's hands. Then when they
switched, I considered it an extension. I just teach "write what you
see". Then receptive is for transcribing something brand new if you
don't know the meaning, and then expressive when you have moved it to
your own hands. Expressive has become the standard for the
dictionaries and most usage. Dance writing is still, apparently,
receptive. It took me hours to transcribe video tape because I think
to write what someone else is doing, and then reverse it to my hands
is the challenge.
Charles
--- On Tue, 10/20/09, MARIA AZZOPARDI <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt"><maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt></a>
wrote:
From: MARIA AZZOPARDI <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt"><maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt></a>
Subject: [sw-l] receptive vs. expressive - history?
To: "SignWriting List" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"><sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu></a>
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 5:13 PM
Hi all,
I was wondering what to do with the receptive and expressive view
points,
when teaching signwriting.
As teachers of signwriting, would you include this explanation - or
would
presenting the two possibilities create a problem that might not be
there.
I've found that when I explain how to signwrite the different
orientations
I explain the 'expressive viewpt' and never include the receptive
view, so
as not to 'teach' them something that I will later have to unteach.
do you find that explaining the expressive view and leaving out the
'receptive' writing, acceptable?
thanks
Maria
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<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<title></title>
<p> Jonathan Duncan<br>
email: <a href="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br>
<a href="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br>
Cel: 9784-9775<br>
Tel: 213-5285<br>
<a href="http://cobanma.ibs-cobanma.com">cobanma.ibs-cobanma.com</a> <br>
<a href="http://JonathanYolaine.ibs-cobanma.com/">Personal Blog</a><br>
<a href="http://thesignwriterstudio.ibs-cobanma.com/">The SignWriter
Studio</a></p>
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