<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I completely agree. I would love to see more of a Webster of the American Sign Language sort of thing going, but I feel that the online puddle wouldn't be the place for that unless it was limited to a few editors. And besides that, most people don't know that sort of information to input it much less even seem to care. If I had all the time in the world and unlimited resources, that is the sort of thing that I would do. ;-)<div><br></div><div>Adam</div><div><br><div><div>On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:23 PM, Charles Butler wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Yes, or a discussion of history of particular signs. I guess we need more documentation of usage in our definitions.<br><br>Charles<br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Adam Frost <<a href="mailto:icemandeaf@gmail.com">icemandeaf@gmail.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>SignWriting List <<a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mon, November 23, 2009 10:29:49 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [sw-l] An interesting query on Non-Dominant Hands (NDH)<br></font><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Yup. That's what I said. ;-) So are you asking where the "C" base is in SignPuddle?</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Adam<br><br>On Nov 23, 2009, at 7:08 PM, "Charles Butler" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The ASL Teacher list serve asked this question. What shape is the Non-Dominant Hand in the sign "church".<br><br>That is a very interesting question, one that I have asked before to some<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>of my fellow deafies in my community. I have seen the NDH being a C as you<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>said, as well as a fist and a flat hand. The most memorable is when I asked<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>my friend who is very pious which it should be for CHURCH. He said that if<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>you sign church on a flat hand, you have a weak foundation; if you sign it<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>on a fist, you have a firm foundation. When I asked about it with a C, he<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>said then you have a weak foundation lazily placed. Then I joked with him<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>and said that maybe it was a weak foundation trying to look like a firm one.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>He laughed at that one. The point being from what I have gathered from him<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>and several others is that it really doesn't matter which of the three you<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>use when just chatting, but when in a very formal setting to use the fist<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>base. Now whether you are teaching your students to be apart of t_he Deaf<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>community socially or professionally will help you decide which to teach.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>MY Comment:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Here is what I find on SignPuddle -- with flat hand and with fist.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br><table border="1" cellpadding="5"><tbody><tr><td><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-012-01-06-07,69,113,02-01-001-01-01-01,103,102,02-01-001-01-01-01,92,102,01-05-029-02-03-01,72,91"><p><b>church</b></p></td><td><br></td><td><table border="1" cellpadding="5"><tbody><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-05-029-02-03-01&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-05-012-01-06-07&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-01-001-01-01-01&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-01-001-01-01-01&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><font size="-1">Sign:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/spreader.html?bsw=00802256f8c4f8f05ec0f8e6f8e55ec0f8dbf8e52940f8c7f8da">Reader</a><br>Modified: September 18, 2008 08:38<br><br></font><br><table border="1" cellpadding="5"><tbody><tr><td><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-10-012-01-02-11,88,140,01-05-029-02-03-01,78,103,02-01-002-01-01-01,76,126,04-02-002-01-01-07,60,146"><p><b>church</b></p></td><td><br></td><td><table border="1" cellpadding="5"><tbody><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-05-029-02-03-01&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=01-10-012-01-02-11&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=02-01-002-01-01-01&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"><img src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/symbol.php?sss=04-02-002-01-01-07&color=999999&size=.7"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><p><font size="-1">Sign:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/spreader.html?bsw=00805e1af8d7f90b2940f8cdf8e65f20f8cbf8fde686f8bbf911">Reader</a><br>Source: Vanessa J.<br>Modified: September 18, 2008 08:41<br>Puddle page 7401</font></p><br>>From what I have noticed is that SN tries to find a happy middle for those<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>who may be unsure or don't want to limit to one or the other without<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>overloading students with too many options. Hope that helps. </div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>____________________________________________</span><br><span></span><br><span>SW-L SignWriting List</span><br><span></span><br><span>Post Message</span><br><span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>List Archives and Help</span><br><span><span><a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a></span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Change Email Settings</span><br><span><span><a target="_blank" href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a></span></span></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br><br><br>____________________________________________<br><br>SW-L SignWriting List<br><br>Post Message<br><a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br><br>List Archives and Help<br><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br><br>Change Email Settings<br><a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>