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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Would be a could idea to
offer them here – since we are are SignWriting Forum – smile <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu
[mailto:sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>Im Auftrag von </span></b>Charles Butler<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b> Sonntag, 10. Januar 2010
15:33<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting
List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b> {Spam} Re: AW: [sw-l]
question for the way to express 'made'</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The problem with the "Teach ASL list" is that
unless you are in "single message mode", all attachments (including
SignWriting) are dropped. I've tried putting them there but the list
isn't set up to take the graphics. I have to send them separately to each
teacher.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Charles<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Stefan Wöhrmann</st1:PersonName>
<stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">sandy@scotstext.org</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName>
<sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sun, January 10, 2010
6:03:29 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> AW: [sw-l] question for
the way to express 'made'<br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><br>
Hi Sandy, Cherie, Charles -- <br>
Would be a great chance to add written ASL phrases in SignWriting to<br>
explain, demonstrate this interesting question about "tenses" in Sign<br>
Language ... <br>
<br>
This would make a difference to the discussions on the teach ASL list where<br>
SignWriting is almost not existent - smile - <br>
<br>
We can proof the benefits of adding examples in real Sign Language<br>
transcriptions. <br>
<br>
What do you think ---- <br>
<br>
Stefan ;-)<br>
<br>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>
Von: <a href="mailto:sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l-bounces@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>]
Im Auftrag von Sandy Fleming<br>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Januar 2010 10:51<br>
An: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
Betreff: Re: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'<br>
<br>
Cherie,<br>
<br>
It's really just a matter of terminology.<br>
<br>
All full human languages have to have a way of expressing _time_, it's<br>
really only if it's grammatically marked (eg by inflections or<br>
mutations) that we call it a "tense".<br>
<br>
Tense just means past, present and future markings. Things that you<br>
often see, even in grammar books, described as tenses (such as<br>
perfective conditional, subjunctive and so on) are actually other things<br>
that can apply to verbs (aspect, mood and manner). But since the system<br>
of inflections in a language often use similar methods to inflect the<br>
verbs for aspect, mood etc as well as tense, they're often just referred<br>
to as tenses.<br>
<br>
In English we can express past, present and future times:<br>
<br>
It was.<br>
It is.<br>
It will be.<br>
<br>
but as you see above, there are only two tenses in English: past and<br>
present. The future is marked with words such as "will",
"shall",<br>
"intend to", or even just with the present tense and a time-word
("I'm<br>
leaving tomorrow").<br>
<br>
French, on the other hand, has all three tenses, and there are a few<br>
languages that have five tenses:<br>
<br>
Distant past<br>
Past<br>
Present<br>
Future<br>
Distant future.<br>
<br>
"Aspect" is another feature of verbs, saying how the action develops
in<br>
time, for example, "perfective aspect" (often called the
"perfect<br>
tense") means the action is completed, and similarly you can have<br>
aspects to say that the action was interrupted, or went on for a very<br>
long time and suchlike. These can sometimes imply tense (which is one<br>
justification for just calling them "tenses"), for example, if an
action<br>
is completed then it tends to be in the past, although there's no reason<br>
why you shouldn't be able to talk about actions being completed in the<br>
future.<br>
<br>
In some languages, aspect is more important than tense: this is true in<br>
Russian, for example. In some languages there is no tense: this is true<br>
of Mandarin and other Chinese dialects and BSL, for example.<br>
<br>
BSL _does_ have grammatically-marked aspect, for example, a sign made<br>
with repetition and stress takes place over a very long time, a sign<br>
which is suddenly frozen indicates that the action was interrupted and<br>
so on.<br>
<br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, 2010-01-09 at 15:56 -0800, Cherie Wren wrote:<br>
> Sorry I am an interpreter, not a linguist. I have to constantly<br>
> defend against people who say ASL isn't a real language because it<br>
> doesn't have______; when ASL just handles that particular ___<br>
> differently than English. Or "ASL doesn't have a word for
___"<br>
> etc. In Linguist-Speak, maybe ASL and BSL don't "have
tense" but what<br>
> I mean is ASL does differentiate between past, present and future, it<br>
> just does not mark each individual verb in the entire discourse like<br>
> English does. I don't know the formal linguist definition for tense,<br>
> or requirements for 'having' tense, but ASL does manage to convey<br>
> past, present, future, '-ing', '-ed' etc.<br>
> <br>
> cherie<br>
> <br>
> ______________________________________________________________________<br>
> From: Trevor Jenkins <<a href="mailto:bslwannabe@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:bslwannabe@gmail.com">bslwannabe@gmail.com</a>><br>
> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName> <<a
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br>
> Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 3:10:18 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'<br>
> <br>
> Um, according to Sutton-Spence and Woll in their "Linguistics of
BSL"<br>
> the language does *not* have tense. In the same way that Chinese does<br>
> not have tense. There are time-markers to denote a change of time but<br>
> that is not the same as grammatical tense where the verb-lexeme is<br>
> altered for moment of occurence. Now as someone performing<br>
> sign-to-voice i would use the time-markers amongst the signs and then<br>
> change the spoken verbs according; or with voice-to-sign I would hear<br>
> the spoken verbs and insert a time marker. Notice that each spoken<br>
> verb has to be changed but only one signed time-marker is required.<br>
> <br>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Cherie Wren <<a
href="mailto:cwterp@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:cwterp@yahoo.com">cwterp@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> > So, based on what you say, BSL expresses tense the same way as ASL.<br>
> It DOES<br>
> > have tense, it just doesn't add it to every verb, like English does.<br>
> ><br>
> > Cherie<br>
> ><br>
> > ________________________________<br>
> > From: Sandy Fleming <<a href="mailto:sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk"
ymailto="mailto:sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk">sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk</a>><br>
> > To: <a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
> > Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 7:18:18 AM<br>
> > Subject: Re: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'<br>
> ><br>
> > Cherie,<br>
> ><br>
> > As I mentioned, BSL doesn't have tense. In telling a story, you<br>
> simply<br>
> > state a time (eg LAST-WEEK or IN-THE-PAST or TOMORROW), then that<br>
> time<br>
> > applies to everything you sign until you state new time.<br>
> ><br>
> > BSL does have a lot of aspect, though, ie how an action is carried<br>
> out.<br>
> > For example, completed, protracted, interrupted and so on.<br>
> ><br>
> > Sandy<br>
> ><br>
> > On Fri, 2010-01-08 at 03:43 -0800, Cherie Wren wrote:<br>
> >> In ASL the tense is one of the first things stated in a story.<br>
> Then<br>
> >> tense is not restated until it changes. So if Lourdes set
up that<br>
> the<br>
> >> story happened in the past at the beginning of the story;
"Once<br>
> upon a<br>
> >> time" or the equivalent, then EVERY verb from then until it
changed<br>
> IF<br>
> >> it changed would look like present tense on the surface, but that<br>
> is<br>
> >> only because the tense has already been established.
English has<br>
> to<br>
> >> state the tense with every flippin' verb. ASL does
not. (Sorry,<br>
> >> can't comment about BSL ::smile::)<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> ______________________________________________________________________<br>
> >> From: Sandy Fleming <<a href="mailto:sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk"
ymailto="mailto:sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk">sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk</a>><br>
> >> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName> <<a
href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br>
> >> Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:59:56 AM<br>
> >> Subject: Re: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'<br>
> >><br>
> >> I'd agree with Trevor's grammar here:<br>
> >><br>
> >> PAST FOOD COOK (hold with aspect) FINISHED.<br>
> >><br>
> >> "PAST" is the time marker (there's no actual tense in
BSL) and<br>
> >> generally<br>
> >> comes in the narrative before the things that happen at that time<br>
> >><br>
> >> "FINISHED" (or "BEEN") is the perfective
aspect, and follows the<br>
> verb<br>
> >> (though not all aspect is handled this way).<br>
> >><br>
> >> But Shane's:<br>
> >><br>
> >> FOOD COOK PAST<br>
> >><br>
> >> isn't wrong, it just needs support from non-manual features, as
he<br>
> >> points out. To me it gives a different emphasis, more on WHEN the<br>
> food<br>
> >> was cooked, rather than the actual cooking.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Does anyone perceive any semantic difference between:<br>
> >><br>
> >> FOOD COOK FINISHED<br>
> >><br>
> >> and:<br>
> >><br>
> >> FOOD COOK BEEN<br>
> >><br>
> >> in BSL? You'd think that "FINISHED" would have more of
an<br>
> achievement<br>
> >> associated with it but it seems to me that this connotation is
lost<br>
> in<br>
> >> using it as a perfective.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I would love to write some grammar rules for SignWriting BSL:
that<br>
> >> sort<br>
> >> of thing would help people to write with more confidence, I
think,<br>
> but<br>
> >> I<br>
> >> don't really feel qualified.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Sandy<br>
> >><br>
> >> On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 22:20 +0000, Trevor Jenkins wrote:<br>
> >> > Hi Shane,<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > Interesting. I'd put that BSL time marker earlier. Something
like<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > PAST FOOD COOK (hold with aspect) FINISHED.<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Shane Gilchrist<br>
> >> > <<a href="mailto:shane.gilchrist.oheorpa@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:shane.gilchrist.oheorpa@gmail.com">shane.gilchrist.oheorpa@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> >> > > Dear Gan,<br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > we dont really have past tenses in the same sense as
the<br>
> English<br>
> >> > > language - for instance, in BSL (using glosses -
sorry!)<br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > I made food:<br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > - FOOD COOK^nodding<br>
> >> > > - FOOD COOK PAST<br>
> >> > > - FOOD COOK FINISHED!<br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > non-manual features are very important here.<br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > Shane<br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > 2010/1/6 Gan Lu <<a
href="mailto:glu@uclan.ac.uk" ymailto="mailto:glu@uclan.ac.uk">glu@uclan.ac.uk</a>>:<br>
> >> > >> Hi Charles;<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> Thanks for the comment. So do you reckon the
past tense is<br>
> >> necessary here? And if we use "create". should it be
'Created'<br>
> then?<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> Thanks<br>
> >> > >> Gan<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >>>>> "Charles Butler" <<a
href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a>>
06/01/10 1:54<br>
> PM<br>
> >> >>><br>
> >> > >> Hmm. In context the sign, I would think would
be either<br>
> "make"<br>
> >> or "create". The tense is carried by the
situation.<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> create<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> ________________________________<br>
> >> > >> From: Gan Lu <<a href="mailto:glu@uclan.ac.uk"
ymailto="mailto:glu@uclan.ac.uk">glu@uclan.ac.uk</a>><br>
> >> > >> To: <a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
> >> > >> Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 8:05:15 AM<br>
> >> > >> Subject: [sw-l] question for the way to express
'made'<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> Dear Adam and Valerie;<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> I'm implementing the system now. While I have
a question:<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> why can't we use an ASL gesture to
express the meaning of<br>
> >> 'made' on the first page of the 'Frosty the Snow Man', other than<br>
> >> using the FingerSpellings to sign these four letters
respectively?<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> I suppose the reason is because the
word 'made' is a past<br>
> >> tense, and there is no ASL for it.<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> The reason I'm asking is my intention is to
implement the<br>
> first<br>
> >> page as a 4-by-4 output pattern, which are 16 sign-boxes in total<br>
> >> includes those punctuations. So I'm looking for a way to squeeze<br>
> the<br>
> >> word 'made' into a box.<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> Thanks<br>
> >> > >> Gan<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> ____________________________________________<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> SW-L <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> Post Message<br>
> >> > >> <a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> List Archives and Help<br>
> >> > >> <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/"
target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> Change Email Settings<br>
> >> > >> <a
href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l" target="_blank">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> ____________________________________________<br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> SW-L <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> Post Message<br>
> >> > >> <a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> List Archives and Help<br>
> >> > >> <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/"
target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >> Change Email Settings<br>
> >> > >> <a
href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l" target="_blank">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > >><br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > ____________________________________________<br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > SW-L <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > Post Message<br>
> >> > > <a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > List Archives and Help<br>
> >> > > <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/"
target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > > Change Email Settings<br>
> >> > > <a
href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l" target="_blank">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> > ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> ____________________________________________<br>
> >><br>
> >> SW-L <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
> >><br>
> >> Post Message<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> List Archives and Help<br>
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target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br>
> >><br>
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> >> <a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l"
target="_blank">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ____________________________________________<br>
> ><br>
> > SW-L <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
> ><br>
> > Post Message<br>
> > <a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
> ><br>
> > List Archives and Help<br>
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> ><br>
> > Change Email Settings<br>
> > <a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l"
target="_blank">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ____________________________________________<br>
> ><br>
> > SW-L <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
> ><br>
> > Post Message<br>
> > <a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
> ><br>
> > List Archives and Help<br>
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> > <a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l"
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> ><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Regards, Trevor.<br>
> <br>
> <>< Re: deemed!<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> ____________________________________________<br>
> <br>
> SW-L <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
> <br>
> Post Message<br>
> <a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
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> <br>
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target="_blank">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> ____________________________________________<br>
> <br>
> SW-L <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
> <br>
> Post Message<br>
> <a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
> <br>
> List Archives and Help<br>
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> Change Email Settings<br>
> <a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l"
target="_blank">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
____________________________________________<br>
<br>
SW-L <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
<br>
Post Message<br>
<a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
<br>
List Archives and Help<br>
<a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br>
<br>
Change Email Settings<br>
<a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l" target="_blank">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
____________________________________________<br>
<br>
SW-L <st1:PersonName w:st="on">SignWriting List</st1:PersonName><br>
<br>
Post Message<br>
<a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>
<br>
List Archives and Help<br>
<a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br>
<br>
Change Email Settings<br>
<a href="http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l" target="_blank">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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