<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Here is my version of the snowman.<div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=5&sid=729">http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=5&sid=729</a></div><div><br></div><div>Adam</div><div><br><div><div>On Jan 13, 2010, at 2:56 PM, Gan Lu wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hello, Adam and others;<br><br> Sorry for keeping silent these days, as I have been keeping working on the system development. I'm currently working on the hand movement classification, where the movements can be classified into either linear or non-linear category. Also, it can then be further identified into eight directions in its plane, the floor or wall plane. I'm also trying to look at some other percific characters of a movement in a more deep way, therefore to generalise the algorithm to cover all possible hand gesutres movements. <br><br> The algorithm will soon be developed, I suppose. And it will be followed by some testings, which will based on that passage we mentioned, Frosty the snow man. <br><br> As we discussed before, the reason we prefere this particular passage is it is relatively simple and involves less face impression. So, Adam, if you would be able to creat a very similar ASL version of current passage that will be really appreciated. Because our system currently under construction is based on the passage posted online, and it is a naive system at this stage after all, which may be hardly to cope with too much changes. But of course, I understand the word 'made' will be changed somehow.<br><br><br> So we look forward to your native ASL version of Frosty, Adam. And thank you very much for your effort.<br><br>Gan<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"Valerie Sutton" <<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a>> >>><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>SignWriting List<br>January 11, 2010<br><br>Hello Adam!<br>Welcome home from Jamaica. I am so looking forward to learning more <br>about your trip, and especially the time you spent at the Caribbean <br>Christian Centre for the Deaf in Knockpatrick. No rush, but in time, <br>we want to hear all about it...<br><br>Thank you for this message about the Frosty document, and your <br>description of what may have been the reasons for some of the writing <br>in the old 1999 document...those reasons sound accurate to me. I <br>admire Lourdes very much. Lourdes was born-Deaf in Puerto Rico, and <br>moved to the United States later, plus when she married in the US, she <br>had hearing children, so there were many language influences in her <br>life...but meanwhile...Lourdes has the courage and creativity to write <br>and do the illustrations herself, and I was so impressed and surprised <br>when she handed me the document that I was happy to post it. You can <br>read more about Lourdes on this web page:<br><br>Lourdes Tollette<br><a href="http://signwriting.org/library/children/frosty/frosty17.html">http://signwriting.org/library/children/frosty/frosty17.html</a><br><br>And we look forward to your native ASL version of Frosty too, Adam. I <br>will be happy to post that too, with your permission (grin ;-) ....<br><br>Val ;-)<br><br>----------------<br><br><br><br>On Jan 11, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Adam Frost wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Well, it looks like I was missed on the list. I missed you all as <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">well, although I wouldn't traded going to the Caribbean Christian <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Centre for the Deaf in Knockpatrick, Jamaica and spending the time <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that I did with those kids. I can't even begin to tell you the <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">enjoyment that I had there. Of course that is for another time. :-)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The question of Lourdes' choice of spelling out MADE is one of the <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">main reasons I asked if I could do a re-rendering of that part. I <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">haven't been able to get settled enough to record it, but I will get <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to it. One thing I can assure you is that the spelling of MADE or <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">even the sign for MAKE will not be in there. I don't know if anyone <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">has ever heard this one, but I have used it a lot when in an ASL <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">class. "Show it; don't tell it." That is precisely how I will convey <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the concept in my rendering.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Now, since I am not Lourdes and I can't read minds all too well <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(although I have been accused of having that ability), I suspect <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that she spelled out made because she was trying to do a very close <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">translation of the story rather than "unwrapping the story of all <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">English wrapping and rewrapping it with ASL leaving only the diamond <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of the story" as my translation teacher would tell me. He also said <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that while Deaf people are more apt to being bilingual, the skill of <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">translating is almost never taught leaving Deaf people very few <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">tools to use when asked to translate a story. This is also my guess <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">why very few facial expressions were used since English isn't an <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"animated" language like ASL. Also realizing the time when Lourdes <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">wrote that translation, most Deaf people felt (and some still do <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">today) that ASL is inferior to English.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Just thought that I'd give a preliminary for those that have been <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">waiting for so long for the day of my return. ;-D<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Adam<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 7, 2010, at 9:21 AM, SignWriting wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">SignWriting List<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">January 7, 2009<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hello Gan, Charles and Shane -<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Yes, Shane is right. There is definitely a way to do all <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">modifications of verbs in sign languages, but the grammar structure <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is different than in spoken languages. In ASL they oftentimes will <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">combine the sign for MAKE or CREATE, that Charles showed you, with <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the sign for FINISH, that gives the verb the past tense...however, <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">we need to wait for Adam Frost to come back from his trip, since he <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is a native ASL signer and he can explain it better than I can...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And Gan, the reason that Lourdes fingerspelled the sign for MADE is <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">not known to us...When we publish a Deaf person's writing, we try <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">not to change their signing style, but instead just try to assist <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">with the way the signs are written in SignWriting...but the actual <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">choice of fingerspelling versus using the past tense for MAKE was <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Lourdes' choice...and we cannot get in touch with Lourdes right <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">now...so if you want to wait until Adam comes home...he can do his <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">own version of Frosty and then you will have the author to ask...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Meanwhile, from your software perspective, it needs to be able to <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">capture and write fingerspelling and facial expressions, if you <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">want the software to really be used by the ASL community, because <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ASL is one of those sign languages that uses a great deal of <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">fingerspelling and all sign languages use facial expressions...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ASL uses a lot of fingerspelling for scientific terms that do not <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">have signs yet, and sometimes the fingerspelling becomes a sign in <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">its own right, by blending together to form an unsual group of <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">finger movements, so your software needs to get used to recognizing <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">fingerspelling...at least ASL has one-handed fingerspelling that <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">might be easier for your software than the two-handed <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">fingerspelling used in the UK...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Those are my thoughts. Adam will be back on January 11th...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Good luck with your software - we look forward to using it someday -<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Val ;-)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-----------<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 7, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Shane Gilchrist wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Dear Gan,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">we dont really have past tenses in the same sense as the English<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">language - for instance, in BSL (using glosses - sorry!)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I made food:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">- FOOD COOK^nodding<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">- FOOD COOK PAST<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">- FOOD COOK FINISHED!<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">non-manual features are very important here.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Shane<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">2010/1/6 Gan Lu <glu@uclan.ac.uk>:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Charles;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks for the comment. So do you reckon the past tense is <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">necessary here? And if we use "create". should it be 'Created' <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">then?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Gan<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"Charles Butler" <chazzer3332000@yahoo.com> 06/01/10 1:54 PM >>><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hmm. In context the sign, I would think would be either "make" <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">or "create". The tense is carried by the situation.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">create<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: Gan Lu <glu@uclan.ac.uk><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To: sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 8:05:15 AM<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: [sw-l] question for the way to express 'made'<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Dear Adam and Valerie;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I'm implementing the system now. While I have a question:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> why can't we use an ASL gesture to express the meaning of <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">'made' on the first page of the 'Frosty the Snow Man', other than <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">using the FingerSpellings to sign these four letters respectively?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> I suppose the reason is because the word 'made' is a past <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">tense, and there is no ASL for it.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The reason I'm asking is my intention is to implement the first <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">page as a 4-by-4 output pattern, which are 16 sign-boxes in total <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">includes those punctuations. So I'm looking for a way to squeeze <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the word 'made' into a box.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Gan<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">____________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">SW-L SignWriting List<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Post Message<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">List Archives and Help<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Change Email Settings<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">____________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">SW-L SignWriting List<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Post Message<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">List Archives and Help<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Change Email Settings<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br><br><br>____________________________________________<br><br>SW-L SignWriting List<br><br>Post Message<br>SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br><br>List Archives and Help<br>http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/<br><br>Change Email Settings<br>http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>____________________________________________<br><br>SW-L SignWriting List<br><br>Post Message<br>SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu<br><br>List Archives and Help<br>http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/<br><br>Change Email Settings<br>http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l<br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>