<div>Dear Valerie,</div>
<div>The volume 1 of our Novo Dic Libras has finally been released.</div>
<div>It is simply awsome.</div>
<div>Yet volume 2 is to be released only by March because there is not enough Couche paper in this country and it has to be imported.</div>
<div>(26,000 dictionaries, each with 2,500 pages).</div>
<div>As soon as volume 2 is released I'll send you both volumes. You'll love them.</div>
<div>Thank you.</div>
<div>Fernando<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">2010/2/11 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sw-l-request@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l-request@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>></span><br>
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<br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of SW-L digest..."<br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: signspelling sequence (Honza)<br> 2. Re: signspelling sequence (Steve Slevinski)<br>
3. Re: signspelling sequence (Honza)<br> 4. Re: signspelling sequence (Charles Butler)<br><br><br>---------- Mensagem encaminhada ----------<br>From: Honza <<a href="mailto:honza@ruce.cz">honza@ruce.cz</a>><br>To: "SignWriting List" <<a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:36:08 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence<br>Hi Val and Steve,<br><br>I have already seen that "analyze etc.."<br>But what is the right goal of "sequence". Was it created just for<br>
sorting signs by that in dictionaries or are there more purposes?<br>I wander if there are rules how to write sequence correctly.<br><br>I am now working on automatic convertor within signwriting and<br>hamnosys. I thought it could be useful for that.<br>
I don't know if anyone has ever try to do it.<br><br>Honza<br><br>On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Valerie Sutton <<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a>> wrote:<br>> SignWriting List<br>
> February 10, 2010<br>><br>> On Feb 10, 2010, at 6:53 AM, Honza wrote:<br>>> sorry If you explain this already, but I haven´t foud it in recent posts.<br>>> Can you explain me why in SignPuddle is SignSpelling and Sequence?<br>
>> Are there any rules for writing Sequence?<br>>> it is important.<br>><br>> Hello Honza!<br>><br>> A SignSpelling is the way a sign is written...the way the sign looks, in a visual cluster, when we read signs.<br>
><br>> A SignSpelling Sequence is for computer-sorting of signs in dictionaries. Which handshape starts the sign? Which symbol ends the sign? This is needed because in dictionaries, we look up by Sign-Symbols. There are two important processes needed to sort dictionaries by Sign-Symbols. First, you need to know the sequence of symbols within each sign. Second, those SignSpelling Sequences are then sorted by the SignWriting alphabetical order of symbols in the ISWA, which I call the Sign-Symbol-Sequence.<br>
><br>> Here is a small booklet called SignSpelling Guidelines 2008. I actually want to re-write and expand upon this manual. It is based on my experience with sorting around 3000-4000 signs, and printing the listing of the signs sorted by Sign-Symbols, and what i personally found was true when people tried to find a sign in the listing...I know there are many theories on what the SignSpelling Sequence rules should be, and I am open to all of them...this booklet just shows my experience with looking up signs...<br>
><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> Also Steve Slevinski has placed some cool new features in SignPuddle. Under each sign or document in SignPuddle, you will see an Analyze link...Click on that Analyze Link. Try it with both a single sign-entry in SignPuddle, and also with a real document with sentences in SignPuddle. Click on Analyze and then click on Sort (see screen capture attached). It will show you the "automated" SignSpelling Sequences for each sign in that document...Automated SignSpelling Sequences are the computer's best-guesses as to what the SignSpelling Sequence should be, based on the ISWA, but if a person has manually changed the SignSpelling Sequence in SignPuddle, then it will show that...(I believe that is true...is this correct, Steve?)...wonderful software for all of us to analyze signs and documents!<br>
><br>> Val ;-)<br>><br>> see attached...<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> ____________________________________________<br>><br>> SW-L SignWriting List<br>><br>> Post Message<br>
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From: "Steve Slevinski" <<a href="mailto:slevin@signpuddle.net">slevin@signpuddle.net</a>><br>To: "SignWriting List" <<a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:11:31 -0600<br>Subject: Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence<br>Hi Honza,<br><br>We only use the sequence for sorting. The PDF that Val previously sent contains the guidelines for writing sequences.<br>
<a href="http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf</a><br><br>People interested in animation have also looked at the sequence. However, there are 2 issues here. The first is to automate the creation of the sequence. The second is to use the sequence to help understand the spatial spelling.<br>
<br>To automate the creation of the sequence, you'd need to analyze each arrow BaseSymbol (maybe each symbol) for head and tail position. You'd need to fill in any assumed symbols that are not included in the spelling, such as starting or ending handshapes. There are several other issues as well.<br>
<br>To use the sequence to understand the spatial spelling, you'd need to match the symbols in the sequence to the symbols in the spatial spelling. Except where symbols are repeated, this should be straight forward. For repeated symbols, you'd need the same logic as was used to automate the creation of the sequence.<br>
<br>So, there may be additional uses for the sequence. My current automation of the sequence is very simplistic. I take the symbols used in the spelling and sort them according to the ISWA order. This simple sequence would not be useful for animation or conversion. I will revisit the automatic creation of the sequence in the future.<br>
<br>Regards,<br>-Steve<br><br><br><br>---------- Mensagem encaminhada ----------<br>From: Honza <<a href="mailto:honza@ruce.cz">honza@ruce.cz</a>><br>To: "SignWriting List" <<a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:20:01 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence<br>Hi Steve,<br><br>thanks for link to pdf.<br>I think it can be useful for us.<br>I just have one more question - if there is difficult sign that<br>
contains more difficult spelling including more than starting and end<br>position of hands how do you make spelling then?<br>Do you use syllables from 1 again?<br><br>thanks<br>Honza<br><br>On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Steve Slevinski <<a href="mailto:slevin@signpuddle.net">slevin@signpuddle.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi Honza,<br>><br>> We only use the sequence for sorting. The PDF that Val previously sent<br>> contains the guidelines for writing sequences.<br>> <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf</a><br>
><br>> People interested in animation have also looked at the sequence. However,<br>> there are 2 issues here. The first is to automate the creation of the<br>> sequence. The second is to use the sequence to help understand the spatial<br>
> spelling.<br>><br>> To automate the creation of the sequence, you'd need to analyze each arrow<br>> BaseSymbol (maybe each symbol) for head and tail position. You'd need to<br>> fill in any assumed symbols that are not included in the spelling, such as<br>
> starting or ending handshapes. There are several other issues as well.<br>><br>> To use the sequence to understand the spatial spelling, you'd need to match<br>> the symbols in the sequence to the symbols in the spatial spelling. Except<br>
> where symbols are repeated, this should be straight forward. For repeated<br>> symbols, you'd need the same logic as was used to automate the creation of<br>> the sequence.<br>><br>> So, there may be additional uses for the sequence. My current automation of<br>
> the sequence is very simplistic. I take the symbols used in the spelling<br>> and sort them according to the ISWA order. This simple sequence would not<br>> be useful for animation or conversion. I will revisit the automatic<br>
> creation of the sequence in the future.<br>><br>> Regards,<br>> -Steve<br>><br>><br>><br>> ____________________________________________<br>><br>> SW-L SignWriting List<br>><br>> Post Message<br>
> <a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>><br>> List Archives and Help<br>> <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br>
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From: "Charles Butler" <<a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a>><br>To: "SignWriting List" <<a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:00:40 -0800 (PST)<br>Subject: Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence<br>
<div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div>At least for me, if you have a sign that requires multiple syllables to spell it out, such as two hands spiraling and then one landing on the other, you'd have to break it into syllables. I'm thinking of something like "Jack and Jill falling down the hill". I'd be likely to have the two hands roll first (as one sign) and then have the contact point as a separate sign rather than trying to merge them altogether.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>However, something like "microwave" which has "box" + "magic" has both two hands drawing a box, and then opening up to five hands to go "poof" . That's two hands, opposite motions, and then a second set of spelling to cover the "poof".</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I tried to finish the sign but for some reason I can't fathom I can't get back into the sign to edit it. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div><span style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium">
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<p><b>microwave</b></p></td>
<td>
<p>electrical device for heating food.</p></td>
<td>
<table border="1" cellpadding="5">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="middle"><img></td></tr>
<tr>
<td align="middle"><img></td></tr>
<tr>
<td align="middle"><img></td></tr>
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<td align="middle"><img></td></tr>
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<td align="middle"><img></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<p><font size="-1"></font></p><font size="-1"></font>
<p><font size="-1">Sign in BSW: <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" title="00800150f90cf8b00158f8f0f8af7602f915f8d6761af8ddf8d61cd1f914f9031cd9f8e3f9010081015001587602761a1cd11cd9" href="http://www.signbank.org/swis/glyphogram.php?bsw=00800150f90cf8b00158f8f0f8af7602f915f8d6761af8ddf8d61cd1f914f9031cd9f8e3f9010081015001587602761a1cd11cd9" target="_blank">View</a>, <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" title="00800150f90cf8b00158f8f0f8af7602f915f8d6761af8ddf8d61cd1f914f9031cd9f8e3f9010081015001587602761a1cd11cd9" href="http://www.signbank.org/swis/iswa/index.html?bsw=00800150f90cf8b00158f8f0f8af7602f915f8d6761af8ddf8d61cd1f914f9031cd9f8e3f9010081015001587602761a1cd11cd9" target="_blank">Analyze</a><br>
Sign in UTF-8: <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" title="" href="http://www.signbank.org/swis/glyphogram.php?utf=%F1%80%82%80%F1%80%85%90%F1%8F%A4%8C%F1%8F%A2%B0%F1%80%85%98%F1%8F%A3%B0%F1%8F%A2%AF%F1%87%98%82%F1%8F%A4%95%F1%8F%A3%96%F1%87%98%9A%F1%8F%A3%9D%F1%8F%A3%96%F1%81%B3%91%F1%8F%A4%94%F1%8F%A4%83%F1%81%B3%99%F1%8F%A3%A3%F1%8F%A4%81%F1%80%82%81%F1%80%85%90%F1%80%85%98%F1%87%98%82%F1%87%98%9A%F1%81%B3%91%F1%81%B3%99" target="_blank">View</a>, <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" title="" href="http://www.signbank.org/swis/iswa/index.html?utf=%F1%80%82%80%F1%80%85%90%F1%8F%A4%8C%F1%8F%A2%B0%F1%80%85%98%F1%8F%A3%B0%F1%8F%A2%AF%F1%87%98%82%F1%8F%A4%95%F1%8F%A3%96%F1%87%98%9A%F1%8F%A3%9D%F1%8F%A3%96%F1%81%B3%91%F1%8F%A4%94%F1%8F%A4%83%F1%81%B3%99%F1%8F%A3%A3%F1%8F%A4%81%F1%80%82%81%F1%80%85%90%F1%80%85%98%F1%87%98%82%F1%87%98%9A%F1%81%B3%91%F1%81%B3%99" target="_blank">Analyze</a><br>
Source: Charles Butler Neto 2010<br>Modified: February 11, 2010 08:54<br>Puddle page 10669</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></span></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"><font size="2" face="Tahoma">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> Honza <<a href="mailto:honza@ruce.cz" target="_blank">honza@ruce.cz</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> SignWriting List <<a href="mailto:sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank">sw-l@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a>><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Thu, February 11, 2010 11:20:01 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence<br></font><br>Hi Steve,<br><br>thanks for link to pdf.<br>
I think it can be useful for us.<br>I just have one more question - if there is difficult sign that<br>contains more difficult spelling including more than starting and end<br>position of hands how do you make spelling then?<br>
Do you use syllables from 1 again?<br><br>thanks<br>Honza<br><br>On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Steve Slevinski <<a href="mailto:slevin@signpuddle.net" target="_blank">slevin@signpuddle.net</a>> wrote:<br>> Hi Honza,<br>
><br>> We only use the sequence for sorting. The PDF that Val previously sent<br>> contains the guidelines for writing sequences.<br><span>> <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf</a></span><br>
><br>> People interested in animation have also looked at the sequence. However,<br>> there are 2 issues here. The first is to automate the creation of the<br>> sequence. The second is to use the sequence to help understand the spatial<br>
> spelling.<br>><br>> To automate the creation of the sequence, you'd need to analyze each arrow<br>> BaseSymbol (maybe each symbol) for head and tail position. You'd need to<br>> fill in any assumed symbols that are not included in the spelling, such as<br>
> starting or ending handshapes. There are several other issues as well.<br>><br>> To use the sequence to understand the spatial spelling, you'd need to match<br>> the symbols in the sequence to the symbols in the spatial spelling. Except<br>
> where symbols are repeated, this should be straight forward. For repeated<br>> symbols, you'd need the same logic as was used to automate the creation of<br>> the sequence.<br>><br>> So, there may be additional uses for the sequence. My current automation of<br>
> the sequence is very simplistic. I take the symbols used in the spelling<br>> and sort them according to the ISWA order. This simple sequence would not<br>> be useful for animation or conversion. I will revisit the automatic<br>
> creation of the sequence in the future.<br>><br>> Regards,<br>> -Steve<br>><br>><br>><br>> ____________________________________________<br>><br>> SW-L SignWriting List<br>><br>> Post Message<br>
> <a href="mailto:SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu" target="_blank">SW-L@majordomo.valenciacc.edu</a><br>><br>> List Archives and Help<br><span>> <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a></span><br>
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