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On 28/05/2010 7:45 AM, Steve Slevinski wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4BFFC904.6040509@signpuddle.net" type="cite">On
May 27, 2010, at 6:24 PM, Jonathan y Yolaine wrote:
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">> > Hi Steve,
<br>
> I like how you made the item generic both for BSW and for
other languages. It makes for a flexible structure that would even
support sign languages back to back.!!! Also this way it would
support unlimited terms or glosses for each entry.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hi Jonathan,
<br>
<br>
I'm glad you like SPML. I still to make a few tweaks, but I like it
too. One thing I really like is the ability to go from markup to
database. I created an SPML to SQL script. Next I'll need to reverse
it so I can go from SQL to SPML. You can see both the SPML and the SQL
for the English/ASL User Interface:
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://signbank.org/signpuddle2/data/ui/1.spml">http://signbank.org/signpuddle2/data/ui/1.spml</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://signbank.org/signpuddle2/data/ui/1.sql">http://signbank.org/signpuddle2/data/ui/1.sql</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
That's really cool. I am investigating ORM for database to Object.
Then I can easily go from Object to XML and vice versa. <br>
I loaded 1.sql into MSSQL but it didn't run, has many errors. But I
image it wasn't meant to run on MSSQL anyways so that's ok. What
flaver of SQL are you using?<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4BFFC904.6040509@signpuddle.net" type="cite"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">> > Is SPML an exchange format just
for the dictionaries or also for the literature?
<br>
</blockquote>
The SPML exchange format will be used for both. The <entry>
element can have 3 literature oriented attributes: top, previous, and
next. These provide the linking between entries and will be used for
literature with multiple pages. Eventually, the markup will probably
need to be customized to differentiate dictionaries from literature.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">> > There are 5 things that I would
like to suggest.
<br>
> 1. Add a Global unique ID (GUID) for each entry so that it will be
easy to compare whether we are exchanging an entry that we already
had. The "entry id" good for the SignPuddle database, other programs
may not have the same id in their database. The GUID permits you to
detect whether we are talking about the same entry or not.
<br>
</blockquote>
A global unique ID may be useful and can be constructed right now.
There are 2 main types of puddles: ui and sgn. Each puddle has a
unique ID. So entry 7 is the user interface puddle number 1 would have
the unique ID of "ui.1.7". I need to add the puddle type and id as
attributes to the <spml> tag.
<br>
</blockquote>
I don't think you understood what I meant. Let be explain some more.
When someone has a Personal sign Puddle, their "Not-so-unique" id for
entry 7 in user interface puddle number 1 will be "ui.1.7" and probably
won't even be the same thing. Rather a GUID is unique per entry
throughout all the records in all the tables of all the databases of
the world. The the same problem would occur for other programs wanting
to export data to SignPuddle using SPML. For more info see.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guid">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guid</a><br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4BFFC904.6040509@signpuddle.net" type="cite"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">> 2. Add a time stamp to each entry, so
that we can compare to of the same signs and help decided if we should
update the one we have, or not change anything if the sign is older or
the same as the one we already have.
<br>
</blockquote>
This is already there. Entries and items have 2 dates: CDT (created),
and MDT (modified). Unix time stamps are used.
<br>
<br>
<entry e_id="2" cdt="1172438830" mdt="1173731285">
<br>
<item i_id="3" lang="ase" cdt="1172438830" mdt="1173731285">
<br>
<term t_id="3"
index="29e062e062e070c0ed40">0080ed46f9caf9bb29f0f9e1f9e062e0f9c4f9ea62e0f9d4f9fb70c1f9d0f9d9</term>
<br>
</item>
<br>
<item i_id="4" lang="en" cdt="1172438830" mdt="1173731285">
<br>
<term t_id="4"><![CDATA[User Interface]]></term>
<br>
<text><![CDATA[Contains the text used for the
display.]]></text>
<br>
</item>
<br>
</entry>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
I never used Unix Time stamps but I found a piece of code to convert
from Time objects to Unix Timestamps and back and forth so it shouldn't
be a problem.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4BFFC904.6040509@signpuddle.net" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">> 3. Add an identifier to the item tag to
specify whether it is a BSW string or other foreign string. Of course
you could always use the an algorithm to determine this but when you
have a really long list it is much faster to read the value that to
decided which it is for each one. </blockquote>
Interesting idea. I'm still mulling this over.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">> 4. It seems to me that the "src" tag
should belong to the entry tag and not to the item tag. It is repeated
many times. You may have other reasons for this structure which may
not be apparent to me at this time.
<br>
</blockquote>
There are 2 reasons to repeat the source. First, one person can add an
ASL sign and another person could add the BSL. Second, one person
could add an ASL sign and another person could add a different ASL
sign.
<br>
</blockquote>
Makes sense then to repeat the source. I hadn't thought of it from
that angle. <br>
<br>
How do you plan on implementing the several sign languages all in one
puddle???? As each puddle has it's own language? See about about id
ui.7.1 in the SPML tag?<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4BFFC904.6040509@signpuddle.net" type="cite"><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">> 5. If you are only going to have one
name tag inside the item tag and the item tag doesn't have any other
children, then the name tag is redundant. Though it might add to
legibility. </blockquote>
Is it easier to be redundant with a simple definition without special
exceptions. Also there can be multiple terms, but only one text.
Without the <term> or <text> identifier, we don't know
which one we have.
<br>
</blockquote>
I see that in the example above you don't have the name tag. Could you
explain some more on the difference of the term tag and the text tag
please??<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4BFFC904.6040509@signpuddle.net" type="cite"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">> What do you have in mind for annotating
the colors and sizes of the symbols. Would SPML be able to share
information about color and size of the symbols from one program to
another?
<br>
</blockquote>
No color or size information is contained in SPML. Symbols within a
sign are always the same size. Color and size should be controlled by
CSS, but that's a work in progress.
<br>
</blockquote>
I would be a bit of a bummer not to be able to share colors or sizes of
symbols between programs. Especially if you want to send your document
to another program to do the layout.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4BFFC904.6040509@signpuddle.net" type="cite"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">> > Here is a rough sample of my
suggestions:
<br>
> > <entry id="29" guid="cc2e7faa-1d56-4b0c-a7ee-2d2b96241471"
timestamp="2009-11-17T06:57:38.4375-06:00"> > <item
lang="ase"
type="bsw">00800112f9c4f9d6011af9abf9de6640f9c6f9e570c4f9c6f9f4</item>
> <item lang="en" type="other">cannot</item>
> <item lang="en" type="other">can't</item> >
<src>Valerie Sutton</src> > </entry> > </blockquote>
Thanks for including an example. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">> Thank you for all of your hard work on
these standards. They help bring the whole together.
<br>
> > Jonathan
<br>
> </blockquote>
Thanks for taking the time to consider and comment.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Looking forward to your comments<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4BFFC904.6040509@signpuddle.net" type="cite"><br>
Regards,
<br>
-Steve
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<title></title>
<p> Jonathan Duncan<br>
email: <a href="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br>
<a href="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br>
Cel: 9784-9775<br>
Tel: 213-5285<br>
Skype: yojoduncan<br>
<a href="http://cobanma.ibs-cobanma.com">cobanma.ibs-cobanma.com</a> <br>
<a href="http://www.signwriterstudio.com/">SignWriter Studio</a></p>
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