<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif"><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif">George,</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif">I think that many people (who are fluent in ASL or other signed languages) are frustrated dealing with many people who are new to ASL. Many ASL beginners were often upset that they can't go and use ASL signed in the English order i.e. MY NAME I-S SHANE. I AM GO-ING TO THE SHOPS (instead of MY NAME WHAT? SHANE. ME GO SHOP-SHOP) and in many cases, they would try and tell people who are fluent in ASL how to reconstruct the signed language - I am not saying that you are one of them - however it is frustrating for many people. Maybe we are jealous that Americans learning Spanish won't complain about the Spanish language using different grammar / word order to English?!?</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif">There are times when my partner wish that I would let him use Signed English rather than Northern Ireland Sign Language that uses a lot of placements/locative expressions and the many concepts that does not exist in a linear language such as English!!!</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif">But I can see your point there - I think there should be a more simpler example of a ASL sentence - people who are good with ASL will understand Cherie Wren's signwritten "Jack & Jill" but newcomers like you would find it hard to follow it as it has used a lot of locative expressions. </font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif">Everyone: Any suggestions for the new example? I won't recommend poetic stuff/high culture stuff - we need something simple and easy!</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>Shane</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#6633ff" face="verdana, sans-serif">p.s. Cherie: we ll want to keep your example! (I like it!) - we ll need another example as well!</font></div>
<br></font><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><div>On Jun 3, 2011, at 3:21 PM, George Veronis wrote:</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">A number of people responded to my suggestion about signwriting (SW). Only two of them understood where I was coming from and why I made the suggestion that a simpler, more straightforward piece is called for in the Wikipedia article. Valerie Sutton mentioned the origins of SW and how it arose from someone without a background in sign language. I think that all of the respondents should read and think about what she wrote because at the time she was also not involved in SW as it has developed. The other person who made very pertinent remarks is Stuart Thiessen, who went through the same experience that I have, viz., very little knowledge at a very early stage of learning ASL. He, too, needed responses to questions that arose from very little experience with ASL<div>
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<br>I think that communication itself must be handled with care. One has to take the time and trouble to understand the basis and the reason for remarks made and questions asked. The article in Wikipedia is in the English language and the topics contained therein are intended for English speaking people. I wrote as an English speaker and relatively ignorant ASL user who was trying to understand an esoteric </div>
<div>topic. All of you must have been confronted with "Why signwriting - why don't they just use the text?". That's a very understandable question for someone with little or no training in sign language and with no experience with deaf people. I have attended a total of 12 classes in ASL; for my final exam I decided to try to convey to the class that something called signwriting exists. No one in a class of fifteen, not even the teacher, had ever heard of signwriting. So those of you who have been involved with SW for a long time should keep in mind that there is a world of people who might want to know about SW and who will probably ask very simple and elementary questions, as I did. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Given what I just wrote, I would like to suggest that a statement like the one that Adam Frost made:</div><div><font color="#1B00FF">Having a literal translation will actually be seen as an insult, especially to native users, and will make SignWriting seem to be an oppressors tool to limit how Sign Language is used </font>must be directed to an audience very different from the vast majority of users of Wikipedia. I was completely perplexed by it</div>
<div>and it was only after thinking hard about how in world anyone could misconstrue my simple suggestion that I realized how delicate the issue of communication is and how hard we have to think about the source of the question. Without giving the issue serious consideration, the two sides, experienced SW users and those seeking to understand what SW is all about, will never make contact and that would be a pity. But as long as people like Thiessen and Sutton are involved, there is hope that the issue will not get too far out of control.</div>
<div><br></div><div>With serious good intentions,</div><div>George Veronis </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div>
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