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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Val, Adam, Charles,
Bill ... friends of the sw-list, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It is interesting to
learn that there must be something about these thumb-hand-hand shapes that
seems to allow people to see it from different point of views. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Obviously Adam and Val
see the hand in a way that Charles and me cannot understand. How hard I try I
cannot follow your explanations. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Nevertheless I would
love to understand the way you look at it. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One way may be to offer a
symbol next to the foto – <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I prepared such a
graphic. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In order to show the hand
orientation in your writing Bill – which is perfect from my point of view
(showing the r i g h t three fingers claw hand to the left – as if
holding a red nose of the clown) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I took this foto.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think it is not that
much of importance for this discussion how far the hand is pointing to the
right (20° or 45° -- the r i g h t hand would show the thumb on the right
side -- ;-)))<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In this case Valerie
there is no extra rule necessary – what do you think? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stefan ;-) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Im Auftrag von </span></b>Charles Butler<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b> Dienstag, 13. September
2011 03:03<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b>
SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b> Re: Clown hand
orientation.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'd put the hand 90 degrees with the 2nd and third
fingers on opposite sides of the nose. It's not a pinch, it's holding a red
clown nose. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Charles<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Mon, 9/12/11, Bill Reese <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><wreese01@TAMPABAY.RR.COM></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Bill Reese <wreese01@TAMPABAY.RR.COM><br>
Subject: Re: AW: NEW: Clown correction<br>
To: SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>
Date: Monday, September 12, 2011, 6:22 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv63572253>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>So if I should write it like this:<br>
<img width=96 height=60 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:image003.jpg@01CC7249.E6CB8B60"><br>
it would be wrong one way and right another? Looks like I would be
saying "peuw" rather than "clown" anyways. lol<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/12/2011 4:45 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>SignWriting List <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>September 12, 2011<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Charles -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks for this message!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The word intuitive is used in different ways - no
one says the thumbs match - of course they don't!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>But it is intuitive for us in other ways - we like
placing the right hand on the right side of the body, because for us, it goes
back to the old stick figure - before we used to write the arm lines attached
to these hand symbols and they still do in Denmark and sometimes in schools,
and since the right arm is on the right side of the body, it feels best to me
anyway, to have the right hand on the right side of the body...but of course
the details of the thumbs are not perfect - you are absolutely right - in the
long run though, people do read stick figures and when you take the stick
figure away and leave just the hands, you have the hands on the right side of
the face - so we were never saying that the photo and the symbol match one
hundred percent - they never have since the beginning of the system - but
when we write, there is an intuitive feeling to the writing system anyway -
at least that is what others tell me - I respect your concern and please go
right ahead and write as you wish - we are just documenting what the symbols
represent to us -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><img width=256 height=464
id=yiv635722530b180f0f-8779-410d-8cc2-7b204b4d2ef5
src="cid:image004.jpg@01CC7249.E6CB8B60"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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