<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">In this case, the thumb is at the top and the hand is clearly pointing to the right, that is a 90 degree from straight up and down, so I am curious as to the answer to this as well.<div><br></div><div>If I am to rotate the hand to the upright position, then the hand that shows that position is what I am talking about. The hand needs to have one way that everyone agrees to or it is DAC-Valerie and Parkhurst-Butler as established standards, which should be documented as such. </div><div><br></div><div><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 9/13/11, Stefan Wöhrmann <i><stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM><br>Subject: AW: Clown hand orientation.<br>To: SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>Date:
Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 1:18 PM<br><br><div id="yiv906097943">
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Hi Val, Adam, Charles,
Bill ... friends of the sw-list, </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">It is interesting to
learn that there must be something about these thumb-hand-hand shapes that
seems to allow people to see it from different point of views. </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Obviously Adam and Val
see the hand in a way that Charles and me cannot understand. How hard I try I
cannot follow your explanations. </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Nevertheless I would
love to understand the way you look at it. </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">One way may be to offer a
symbol next to the foto – </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">I prepared such a
graphic. </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">In order to show the hand
orientation in your writing Bill – which is perfect from my point of view
(showing the r i g h t three fingers claw hand to the left – as if
holding a red nose of the clown) </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">I took this foto.</span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">I think it is not that
much of importance for this discussion how far the hand is pointing to the
right (20° or 45° -- the r i g h t hand would show the thumb on the right
side -- ;-)))</span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">In this case Valerie
there is no extra rule necessary – what do you think? </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Stefan ;-) </span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold;">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">
SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-</span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Im Auftrag von </span></b>Charles Butler<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Gesendet:</span></b> Dienstag, 13. September
2011 03:03<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">An:</span></b>
SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Betreff:</span></b> Re: Clown hand
orientation.</span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I'd put the hand 90 degrees with the 2nd and third
fingers on opposite sides of the nose. It's not a pinch, it's holding a red
clown nose. </span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Charles</span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Mon, 9/12/11, Bill Reese <i><span style="font-style:italic;"><wreese01@TAMPABAY.RR.COM></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><br>
From: Bill Reese <wreese01@TAMPABAY.RR.COM><br>
Subject: Re: AW: NEW: Clown correction<br>
To: SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>
Date: Monday, September 12, 2011, 6:22 PM</span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">So if I should write it like this:<br>
<img width="96" height="60" id="yiv906097943_x0000_i1025" src="cid:1.936058346@web125706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com"><br>
it would be wrong one way and right another? Looks like I would be
saying "peuw" rather than "clown" anyways. lol<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/12/2011 4:45 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote: </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">SignWriting List </span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">September 12, 2011</span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Hi Charles -</span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Thanks for this message!</span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">The word intuitive is used in different ways - no
one says the thumbs match - of course they don't!</span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">But it is intuitive for us in other ways - we like
placing the right hand on the right side of the body, because for us, it goes
back to the old stick figure - before we used to write the arm lines attached
to these hand symbols and they still do in Denmark and sometimes in schools,
and since the right arm is on the right side of the body, it feels best to me
anyway, to have the right hand on the right side of the body...but of course
the details of the thumbs are not perfect - you are absolutely right - in the
long run though, people do read stick figures and when you take the stick
figure away and leave just the hands, you have the hands on the right side of
the face - so we were never saying that the photo and the symbol match one
hundred percent - they never have since the beginning of the system - but
when we write, there is an intuitive feeling to the writing system anyway -
at least that is what others tell me - I respect your concern and please go
right ahead and write as you wish - we are just documenting what the symbols
represent to us -</span></font></p>
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<p class="yiv906097943MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><img width="256" height="464" id="yiv906097943b180f0f-8779-410d-8cc2-7b204b4d2ef5" src="cid:2.936058346@web125706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com"></span></font></p>
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