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Charles,<br>
I have to agree with you on this. It seems to be a lot of extra
writing. But, as Stephen pointed out, it could be used for
articulation training but not necessarily the sign itself. As a
research or training tool, you wouldn't have a child in school going
to the blackboard to write it. <br>
<br>
I would imagine that, for Ingvild and other's who's sign language
differentiates signs by mouth movements that the different signs
could, conceivably, be written with just the first mouth movement
(if they're dissimilar) or the mouth movement that is more dominant
or is different between signs. <br>
<br>
On the other hand, I would also presume it's possible to write a
string of mouth movements without the face, similar to the concept
of writing Latin letters next to the mouth.<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/17/2011 7:36 AM, Charles Butler wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1318851412.30963.YahooMailClassic@web125702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">I guess people are
misunderstanding what I'm saying, DELEGS is the closest
that I have seen to a DOS program that allowed people to
show grammatical differences and word/concept order on the
same line or within visual distance to help Deaf people
read in their own language and compare it to a spoken
language rendering of the same concepts.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would not want to show a Roman letter within a
sign, I'd be showing a facial expression probably quite
similar to the Gebarendenschrift, but I don't even know
understand why so MANY faces compressed. One may as well
be using Cued Speech as one's augmentation, which at
least reduces the number of faces to a handful not a
line of up to 10 faces.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm sorry, when I see a row of faces it confuses me,
I think signs, not whole clusters of faces. It may show
every nuance of the articulation of a face and for
showing that to help with lipreading, it may be perfect,
but I look at it and think -- how can a child possibly
write that on a board with a piece of chalk and say "o
this is simple". I guess I'm looking for minimal pairs,
what is the absolute minimum necessary to show an
articulation, which for the Deaf in the US was to strip
the body away and show much fewer facial markers than
hearing users expected. The Gebaredenschrift is created
to be articulated by computer, as all these programs
are, but what of someone somewhere with only paper and
pencil, not a computer. If an EMP pulse comes along, all
the programming in the world will not survive but a
pencil and paper will still function.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Charles</div>
<div> <br>
<br>
Charles Butler<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br>
240-764-5748<br>
Clear writing moves business forward.<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Mon, 10/17/11, Stefan Wöhrmann <i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM"><stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16,
255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>
From: Stefan Wöhrmann
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM"><stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM></a><br>
Subject: Mundbilder in der GebaerdenSchrift<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
Date: Monday, October 17, 2011, 6:49 AM<br>
<br>
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<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Hi Ingvild, </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"
lang="EN-GB">in order to understand
the difference between Mundbildschrift – a
tool to support articulation and
listening-training - and Mundbilder in
der GebaerdenSchrift (what you might
write in Signwriting in order to present
information coming from the lips and
tongue) you may download this file. </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
href="http://www.gebaerden.de/files/3187/upload/pdf_new/Mundbilder%20in%20der%20GebaerdenSchrift.pdf">http://www.gebaerden.de/files/3187/upload/pdf_new/Mundbilder%20in%20der%20GebaerdenSchrift.pdf</a></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Stefan ;-) </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;" align="center"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;">
<hr tabindex="-1" align="center"
size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold;">Von:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">
SignWriting
List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Im
Auftrag von </span></b>Ingvild
Roald<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Gesendet:</span></b>
Montag, 17. Oktober 2011
11:58<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">An:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Betreff:</span></b>
Re: AW: Please help us
test SignWriter Studio Beta 5!!</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">I
agree, the Mundbildschrift and
the Mundbilder the Gebäredenschrift are
not the same - but very useful.<br>
<br>
The writing of 'words' beside the mouth
was / is just a lazy (and formerly
only) way of writing the different
mouthing of signs that are otherwise
similar. With Mundbildschrift this can
be done directly - so I do not really
miss this oprtunity to write the latin
letters near the mouth. Whith the latin
letters the connection to the Norwegian
word is stressed, but letters are not
really part of SignWriting<br>
<br>
I have looked at DELEGS - and I am
refering to it in my lecture later this
week
in the Netherlands - as I am to your
Mundbildschrift - I am recomending the
use
of SignWriting as part of making deaf
children literate<br>
<br>
Ingvild </span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;" align="center"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">
<hr id="yiv406876922stopSpelling"
align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">Date:
Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:46:32
+0200<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM">stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM</a><br>
Subject: AW: Please help us test
SignWriter Studio Beta 5!!<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Hi Ingvild and friends,
</span></font><font face="Tahoma"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;" lang="EN-GB">it
is interesting to
understand that you agree with my
concept that it is necessary to add
information coming from the lips-
and tongue movements in order to
“understand”
the exact meaning of a given sign. </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB">“....Signs that are
the same in the hands and other
movements, differ in the mouthing
and make distinctive signs that way.
NSL
claims to have no homonyms (two or
more signs that look exatly the same
but
have different meaning) because of
this....” </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB">Well my invention of
Mundbildschrift is not the same
as my set of “Mundbilder in der
GebaerdenSchrift” </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB">Nevertheless – thanks
to the studies of Erica
Hoffmann with my students we found
out that it is not correct simply to
add the
letters of a word (spoken language)
next to the sign in order to avoid
“Mundbilder”</span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB">To my very surprise I
had to understand – and this
has been such an amazing experience
– that even little deaf children
having no
idea of how to write the spoken word
– show almost mouth – and tongue
movement
patterns that almost look like the
same – as a “informed” signer would
perform.
</span></font><font face="Tahoma"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB">Mouth movements are
part of the usual guessing game
trying to understand from
lip-reading. From my actual point
of view these
Mundbilder which I defined to stand
for special patterns of movements
that
might result in specific sounds of a
given spoken language come pretty
close to
the best representation of what can
be seen (!!!) looking at a signing
person. </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB">And you are right –
SignPuddle – so far does not
allow to type latin letters – as you
could do with the DOS Program. Did
you get
the chance to look at the German new
softare Delegs? </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB">Now you get the
chance to look for your signs almost
loke in the good old SWDOS –program.
</span></font><font face="Tahoma"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB">In addition to that
you are able to change the
preferred sign alternative in every
document without any problem. You
can copy
this specific sign and paste it with
this same variation. You can write
the
best translation of the signwriting
sentence beneath this line and hide
or show one or both lines! This is
the perfect tool to support deaf
students to
improve their spoken language
skills. Just look at the attached
gif.</span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB">Our team is still
busy, busy, busy to complete our
vision of an almost perfect
SignWriting – software program to
support this idea
which is the motto of our Editor:
“Delegs” = Deutsch lernen mit
GebaerdenSchrift" = learn German
assisted by SignWriting".</span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"
lang="EN-GB">All you need is a well
fed dictionary and this
wonderful program. </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"
lang="EN-GB">All the best </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"
lang="EN-GB">Stefan </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">
</span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;"
align="center"><font face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;">
<hr tabindex="-1" align="center"
size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold;"
lang="EN-GB">Von:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"
lang="EN-GB">
SignWriting List: Read and Write
Sign Languages
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Im
Auftrag
von </span></b>Ingvild Roald<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Gesendet:</span></b>
Montag, 17. Oktober 2011
11:15<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">An:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Betreff:</span></b>
Re: Please help us test
SignWrite</span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">r
Studio Beta 5!!</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">?<br>
<br>
I don't think I can write a 'word'
in latin letters beside a mouth in
SignPuddle, can I?<br>
<br>
On the other hand, I DO love the
newer software,<br>
<br>
Ingvild </span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;"
align="center"><font face="Tahoma"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">
<hr
id="yiv406876922ecxstopSpelling"
align="center" size="2"
width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">Date:
Sun, 16 Oct 2011 09:11:06 -0700<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sutton@SIGNWRITING.ORG">sutton@SIGNWRITING.ORG</a><br>
Subject: Re: Please help us test
SignWriter Studio Beta 5!!<br>
To:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
<br>
SignWriting List</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">October
16, 2011</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">Hi
Ingvild and Charles!</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">Two
thoughts...</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">First,
SignWriter DOS is not past
tense - it is not in the
past. I am using it right now,
and so can anyone. Just
download DOSBOX and
install it:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">DOSBOX</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
href="http://www.dosbox.com/">http://www.dosbox.com/</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">Second,
software like SignWriter DOS
and SignPuddle 1.6,
actually has little to do with
how you write. You can write
the Norwegian mouth
movements in any style you
choose in SignPuddle 1.6 too -
software is not a theory
of writing - so there are no
limits to your writing styles
when it comes to
Mouth Movements in either
software program...</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">The
only limits to SignWriter DOS
usage is that it uses a
smaller symbolset (sss1995)
and it cannot write down in
vertical columns - but
other than that there are no
limitations on your writing
styles no matter which
software program you choose -</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">I
think what you really are
saying is that you enjoyed
writing the old way - and that
is fine because you can
continue to write the old
way!</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">smile
-</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">We
are adding a lot of Norwegian
signs and documents - have
you notice?I am so happy about
it!</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">SignPuddle
for Norway</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
href="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/index.html#sgn-NO">http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/index.html#sgn-NO</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">There
are close to 3000 signs now in
the dictionary and the
literature puddle is growing
too - we may need to move some
of the individual
signs from the literature
puddle to the dictionary
puddle, but we will do that
work later - Thank you for all
your old SignWriter DOS files,
Ingvild! I am
happy to build a sign language
corpus in SignPuddle Online
for all countries -</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">Val
;-)</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">---------</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">On Oct 16, 2011, at 5:36
AM, Ingvild Roald wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<p class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">Another
good thing about the
DOS-program
was the possibility to
write the mouthed
'words' near the
mouth, rather than
using the later
invention of
Mundbildschrift', for
those signed languages
that
use a lot of mouthing
in the signs.
Norwegian SL uses
mouthing a lot,
especially for nouns.
Signs that are the
same in the hands and
other movements,
differ in the mouthing
and make distinctive
signs that way. NSL
claims to have
no homonyms (two or
more signs that look
exatly the same but
have different
meaning) because of
this.<br>
<br>
Ingvild<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></p>
<div>
<div
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;" align="center"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">
<hr
id="yiv406876922ecxstopSpelling"
align="center"
size="2"
width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">Date:
Sat, 15 Oct 2011
19:03:24
-0700<br>
From:<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:chazzer3332000@YAHOO.COM"
target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=chazzer3332000@YAHOO.COM">chazzer3332000@YAHOO.COM</a><br>
Subject: Re: Please
help us test
SignWriter Studio
Beta 5!!<br>
To:<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU"
target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a></span></font></p>
<table
class="yiv406876922MsoNormalTable"
border="0"
cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="padding:0cm
0cm 0cm 0cm;"
valign="top">
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;">Part of it is to understand that many
educational
systems use
Sign Writing
to show the
grammar
comparing a
local sign
language to
the local
spoken
language. </span></font></p>
<div>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;">The useful thing about SW Dos is that one can
use the spoken
language, the
signed
language, and
fingerspelling
so that one
can compare
gramatically,
very similar
to the current
German
system. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;">Thank you for your attention. Charles</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"><br>
<br>
Charles Butler<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br>
240-764-5748<br>
Clear writing
moves business
forward.<br>
<br>
--- On<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><b><span
style="font-weight:bold;">Thu, 10/13/11, Jonathan<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><i><span
style="font-style:italic;"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA">duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA</a>></span></i></span></b><span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</span></font></p>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"><br>
From: Jonathan
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA">duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA</a>><br>
Subject: Re:
Please help us
test
SignWriter
Studio Beta
5!!<br>
To:<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU"
target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
Date:
Thursday,
October 13,
2011, 11:09 AM</span></font></p>
<div
id="yiv406876922ecxyiv6217061">
<div>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;">Hi Charles,<br>
I just
tried out
SignWriter DOS
to see exactly
what you are
talking
about. I see
you can type
right over a
sign if you
want to,
below, above
and if you
type a long
sentence the
other signs
move over. Is
it important
for you that
the be place
on top of the
signs too? Or
is it more
important for
you to be able
to write some
text, then
some signs,
then some
text, etc?<br>
Had I
realized that
so many just
LOVE the old
SignWriter Dos
I may have
gotten
permission to
duplicate it
very
faithfully.
With
SignWriter
Studio some
things may be
similar but
none are
identical.
Right now I am
trying to get
the three main
parts of the
program
working, the
dictionary ( I
will soon have
a preview
version
available),
the signlist
(for printing
lists of signs
from the
dictionary)
and the
document.
Once I get
everything
working again
after changing
to ISWA 2010
and a new
database, I am
interested in
implement a
keyboard like
SignWriter
DOS. But
first things
first.<br>
The
document isn't
functional
right now.
Also it only
deals with
vertical
columns of
writing for
the time
being. It can
have text
above the sign
up to the
width of the
sign, then it
wraps onto
more lines.
At present
there isn't
any way of
writing just
text without a
sign but it
shouldn't be
too hard to
implement.
The editing of
the signs is
done in a
popup box
instead of
directly in
the document
like
SignWriter
DOS. A lot of
thought has
been put into
it to use the
keyboard but
it may need a
few more
adjustments
yet.<br>
<br>
Thank you for
sharing this
important
feature with
me and list.<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<br>
On 10/10/2011
9:48 AM,
Charles Butler
wrote:</span></font></p>
<table
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valign="top">
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;">Jonathan, What I really want is SignWriter DOS
on a modern
system.<br>
<br>
In that
program you
could
interleave
written
alphabets and
sign writing.
Clunky, but
effective.<br>
<br>
You could clip
signs from a
narrative and
put them
somewhere
else.<br>
<br>
It was a true
typing system
for signing so
that you could
assemble a
sign by typing
on a keyboard
not a mouse.
Yes, I know
that the
current
encoding of
the ISWA is
dependent upon
a linking of
graphemes and
coding
equivalents.<br>
<br>
None of the
Studios or
other efforts
have gone back
to actual
interleaved
Spoken
Language and
Signed
Language. </span></font><span
lang="EN-GB">I
can clip a
sign and put
it in here<br>
</span><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
id="yiv406876922ecx_x005f_x0000_i1027"
src="http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/glyphogram.php?ksw=AS15a30S15a30S2ea3aS2ea4eS2fb04M30x28S15a30n24xn28S15a309xn28S2ea3a5x3S2ea4en30x3S2fb04n6x22"
border="0"
height="56"
width="60"><span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span
lang="EN-GB">,
in TEXT, when
does THAT come
back in a
program. </span>I
feel like we
are continuing
to take a
great leap
backward.
Until one can
type or easily
assemble, one
can't' send
email that is
in sign
language with
a spoken
language. IF
Chinese can do
it, I am
disappointed
in every Sign
Writing
compiler on
the market
that can't
interleave.<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
Charles Butler<br>
<br>
This is an
email program
and I can do
that, but the
SW studio and
all other
programs do
not do that.<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
<br>
Charles Butler<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" href="http://mc/compose?to=chazzer3332000%40yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br>
240-764-5748<br>
Clear writing
moves business
forward.</p>
<div
id="yiv406876922ecxyiv6217061">
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<div>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><b><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold;"> </span></font></b></p>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="
font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> \_|/\__/ | |_/\_/|_/|_/| |_/\_/|_/ | |_/ (/\___/ \_/|_/ | |_/\___/\_/|_/ | |_/ </span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> /| </span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier
New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> \| </span></font></b></pre>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><b><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold;">email:<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br>
<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br>
Cel: 9983-1204<br>
Tel: 2213-5285<br>
Skype:
yojoduncan<br>
<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriterstudio.com/">SignWriter
Studio</a></span></font></b></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"><fieldset class="yiv406876922ecxyiv6217061mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>No virus found in this incoming message.</span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a> </span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Version: 9.0.914 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3943 - Release Date: 10/07/11 00:34:00</span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></font></pre>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;">--<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></p>
<div>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> </span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> _ ____ </span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> /\ | | (| \ </span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;">| | __ _ _ __, _|_ | | __, _ _ | | _ _ __
__, _ _&am</span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> </span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> </span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;">p;nb</span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;">sp; </span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;">| | / \_/ |/ | / | | |/ \ / | / |/ | _| || | / |/ | / / |
/ |/ | </span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> \_|/\__/ | |_/\_/|_/|_/| |_/\_/|_/ | |_/ (/\___/ \_/|_/ | |_/\___/\_/|_/ | |_/ </span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> /|
</span></font></b></pre>
<pre><b><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="1"><span style="font-size:3.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;"> \| </span></font></b></pre>
<p
class="yiv406876922MsoNormal"><b><font
face="Times
New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold;">email:<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://mc/compose?to=duncanjonathan%40yahoo.ca">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br>
<span
class="yiv406876922ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" href="http://mc/compose?to=joyoduncan%40gmail.com">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br>
Cel: 9983-1204<br>
Tel: 2213-5285<br>
Skype:
yojoduncan<br>
<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriterstudio.com/">SignWriter
Studio</a></span></font></b></p>
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