<html><head><base href="x-msg://452/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">SignWriting List<div>November 15, 2011</div><div><br></div><div>He was just basing it on the ISWA 2010 hand symbols. See attached. But I can see your point - the curve of the bent little finger could be curved the other way towards the center of the body - that would be more consistent - When I worked with the DAC in the 1990's I noticed that the curve was written in different directions depending on the person - some were relating to the center of the symbol and not the center of the body...no matter what, a curve or bend can be read and would be understood I think, no matter what the direction of the curve...</div><div><br></div><div><img height="192" width="204" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" id="6136f917-5397-4b70-b59e-c3595902479f" src="cid:79669548-45B5-45CE-86D4-08801074E4A5"></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Nov 15, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="DE" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div class="Section1" style="page: Section1; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">“There is a second way of writing this, but if you are happy with this I am too …smile...” –<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Well I agree – with a tiny difference – I would flip the curved baby finger in position 2 (palm to the left and back of hand to the right)<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Stefan</span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1"></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Im Auftrag von<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Valerie Sutton<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Gesendet:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Dienstag, 15. November 2011 19:40<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">An:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Betreff:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: News handshapes in Brazilian Sign Language (LSB/Libras)</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">SignWriting List<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">November 15, 2011<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Thank you for the attached photos and suggestions for hand symbols. As you know, you are welcome to construct the hand symbols as they are needed, within the ISWA 2010. If you are finding confusions in writing certain hand symbols that are in the ISWA 2010, of course it is good that you tell us, and go right ahead and do what you feel is best… Meanwhile others around the world are already using the ISWA 2010 as it is, so it is not possible for us to stop everyone from writing the way they choose, but I am fully in support of your efforts to improve your writing of your sign languages…<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">So in this discussion, I am only observing what you are telling us…but not standing in judgement, since I have learned through experience that the hand symbols will never be finished. There are too many possible variations of hand positions and palm facings, for us to have ALL of them for writing every sign language in the world…so please know I am happy that you are sharing with us, and if we can read what you wrote, that is all that matters...<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Regarding Picture 1 below, with the Index Finger and Little Finger bent - I know other sign languages need this hand symbol too. And I can read how you constructed the symbols. So this fine. I can read it. There is a second way of writing this, but if you are happy with this I am too …smile...<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><img width="508" height="433" id="_x0039_ac59145-2b20-4594-bd16-db3df5af7b0b" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CCA3D6.50A10340"><o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">On Nov 12, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Madson Barreto wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="z-index: auto; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; ">Please look these pictures of handshapes. Note that for each one these we have a suggestion of writing in others handshapes.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; ">- The picture “1” is the union of 01-01-007 (ISWA code) and 01-06-019;<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; ">- The picture “2” rememb me 01-08-018;<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; ">- The picture “4” is the union of handshapes 01-01-003 and 01-05-008. It seems with 01-01-003.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; ">- The picture “5” is the union of 01-06-013 [ I ] and 01-10-004 [A]. The handshape “5” is very alike to the 01-06-021 [Y]. Here in Brazil usually use it but it is very seems with 01-06-021 [Y]. I see that many people use it in dactylology (spelling) 01-10-004 for [A] and 01-09-019 for [G]. The handshape 01-06-021 is a different picture of “5”.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; ">We intent include the handshape 1,2,3,4 and 5 them in ISWA and disclose this here in Brazil for use of the 01-09-019 and 01-10-004, stop using 01-09-018 and 01-10-003 because they cause confusion in the writing of handshape “5”.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; ">Eagerly await your reply,</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><b><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; font-weight: bold; ">Madson and Raquel Barreto</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "></span></font></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>