<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Exactly, working with symbols from each signed language so that the examples were strictly those shapes actually used in Brazilian Sign Language and Amharic Sign Language respectively. I will send you the shapes on the other computer. </span></div><div> </div><div>Charles Butler<br>chazzer3332000@yahoo.com<br>240-764-5748<br>Clear writing moves business forward.<br></div> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; "> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> MARIA GALEA <maria.azzopardi@UM.EDU.MT><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <br> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 31, 2012 6:49 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: An alphabet for a specific sign language from the ISWA 2010<br> </font> </div> <br>
Thank you Charles -<br>intersting! do you remember the two specific handshapes that were not used<br>respectively in the different langauges? i will give credit to you for<br>this finding of course, if you do rem. them, if not I might mention this<br>example by you, without giving further details.<br><br>also by any chance do you have the link to the work 'SignWriting for<br>Everyday Use'? so when you say you were helping to edit them in Portugese<br>and Amharic, you mean in the spoken languages right? so a translation of<br>SignWriting for Everyday Use in those languages - where they changed<br>examples of signwritten signs to include the symbols of their languages<br>and removed examples that did not have symbols that represented the<br>symbols of their sign langauges? just making sure I understood..<br><br>thanks for your feedback charles<br>maria<br><br>> In helping to edit Sign Writing for Everyday Use in both Portuguese and<br>> Amharic, we
were challenged in using examples from the languages we were<br>> creating textbooks to ensure that the handshapes we used were only those<br>> actually used in the language. I remember finding one handshape that was<br>> used often in ASL but had not been included in the LIBRAS textbook, and<br>> one handshape that was used in one sign in LIBRAS that was not directly<br>> cited in ASL so that this discussion certainly brings back memories. <br>> <br>> Charles Butler<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br>> 240-764-5748<br>> Clear writing moves business forward.<br>><br>><br>> ________________________________<br>> From: Claudia S. Bianchini <<a ymailto="mailto:chiadu14@GMAIL.COM" href="mailto:chiadu14@GMAIL.COM">chiadu14@GMAIL.COM</a>><br>> To: <a ymailto="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU"
href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 3:59 AM<br>> Subject: Re: An alphabet for a specific sign language from the ISWA 2010<br>><br>><br>> Hello Maria and all,<br>> you can find the LIS (italian SL) "alphabet" (I dislike this word to speak<br>> about SW, but... who cares now :-P ) in the SW Italian manual: it's free<br>> to download in the "download" section of www.visel.cnr.it<br>> The adjustement are only for configurations and it was done with<br>> ISWA2004... but it can give you some ideas. But take on vount that it's a<br>> selection based on the "feelings" of SW users and is done just for writing<br>> usage (not for transcribing). In my thesis I demostrate that their<br>> "feelings" sometimes don't correspond to their real usage of<br>> configurations.<br>> Claudia<br>> PS: I'll discuss (in french) my
thesis on SW the 18th of september 2012 in<br>> Paris... if someone is interested.<br>><br>> 2012/7/30 Charles Butler <<a ymailto="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a>><br>><br>> I completely agree with you on a smaller symbol set. I thought we were<br>> done with the work in Brazil, but Fernando Capovilla has been able to<br>> greatly expand and focus the work so that Brazil may be able to have a<br>> defined symbol set soon. <br>>> <br>>>Charles Butler<br>>><a ymailto="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br>>>240-764-5748<br>>>Clear writing moves business forward.<br>>><br>>><br>>>________________________________<br>>><br>>>From: MARIA GALEA <<a ymailto="mailto:maria.azzopardi@UM.EDU.MT"
href="mailto:maria.azzopardi@UM.EDU.MT">maria.azzopardi@UM.EDU.MT</a>><br>>>To: <a ymailto="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>>>Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 5:59 PM<br>>>Subject: Re: An alphabet for a specific sign language from the ISWA 2010<br>>><br>>><br>>>Thank you Adam for your feedback. Your comment on the benefit of having a<br>>>smaller symbol-set (an alphabet) for specific languages is very much<br>>>appreciated, and I will include your comment and refer to you (if you<br>>> give<br>>>me permission).<br>>><br>>>Any feedback is appreciated at this stage, because so little has been<br>>>written about the subject of specific alphabets. Additionally being who<br>>>you are, a Deaf person/ASL user and surely one of the most highly skilled<br>>>SignWriters - your
comment is invaluable! Thank you!<br>>>maria<br>>><br>>>> As far as I know, there hasn't been much, if any, on the type of work<br>>>> you<br>>>> are asking about. I think it is because there are still so many things<br>>>> that haven't been written in every sign language that it is still hard<br>>>> to<br>>>> say that these symbols will never be used in a given sign language.<br>>>> However, the information that you have found means that you can focus<br>>>> on<br>>>> teaching people<br>> those symbols first rather than going through all in<br>>>> order. Hopefully we will get to that point with more sign languages.<br>>>><br>>>> Adam<br>>>><br>>>> On Jul 29, 2012, at 2:10 PM, "MARIA GALEA" <<a ymailto="mailto:maria.azzopardi@UM.EDU.MT"
href="mailto:maria.azzopardi@UM.EDU.MT">maria.azzopardi@UM.EDU.MT</a>><br>>>> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>>> Once again thank you Charles and Val for your feedback!<br>>>>><br>>>>> I understand that the symbol frequency is a good way to find out<br>>>>> symbols<br>>>>> used to write a specific language - and it can be done - it's a<br>>>>> wonderful<br>>>>> tool in Puddle (thank you Steve!) and I have used it very recently to<br>>>>> analyze the Maltese Sign Language alphabet. However it's not the<br>>>>> intention<br>>>>> of the work to figure out other languages alphabets etc. What I need<br>>>>> to<br>>>>> know is whether this work has been carried out by other researchers<br>> or<br>>>>> teachers.<br>>>>><br>>>>> I am fully aware (as i have taught
SignWriting this way in the past<br>>>>> also)<br>>>>> that the ISWA 2010 can be used as it is to write any sign language -<br>>>>> and<br>>>>> so it's natural that the process of identifying the alphabet of a<br>>>>> language<br>>>>> may be bypassed. That is, you can still teach the writing of a<br>>>>> specific<br>>>>> language WITHOUT having yet discovered the alphabet, because ALL<br>>>>> symbols<br>>>>> of any alphabet are there and ready in the ISWA 2010.<br>>>>><br>>>>> However just to summarize one small finding from my work - for Maltese<br>>>>> Sign Language, 268 base symbols are used from the ISWA's 652. On<br>>>>> further<br>>>>> analysis the number may be reduced to 248 symbol.<br>>>>><br>>>>> So Maltese Sign Language has an alphabet of 248
symbols - now once<br>>>>> this<br>>>>> work is completed - future manuals for the writing of Maltese<br>> sign<br>>>>> language need not cover the 403 base symbols that are NOT used, are<br>>>>> NOT<br>>>>> part of this specific language. See the point I'm after? There may be<br>>>>> benefits from having the alphabet set.<br>>>>><br>>>>> This is one very thin slice of the work, there is a long way to go...<br>>>>><br>>>>> maria<br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting List<br>>>>>> July 28, 2012<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Hi Maria and Charles -<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Yes, Charles is correct. Using the Symbol Frequency feature in<br>>>>>>
SignPuddle<br>>>>>> Online is an excellent way to find all of the symbols used to write<br>>>>>> the<br>>>>>> signs in that specific database. For example, imagine you are<br>>>>>> searching<br>>>>>> for all of the handshapes used in American Sign Language.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> 1. Go to the ASL SignPuddle<br>> dictionary:<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> ASL SignPuddle Dictionary<br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/index.php?ui=1&sgn=4" target="_blank">http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/index.php?ui=1&sgn=4</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> 2. Click on Symbol Frequency.<br>>>>>> 3. Click on the Hands category.<br>>>>>> 4. Click on the SymbolGroup you want.<br>>>>>> 5. Notice in that group, which symbols have numbers under
them, and<br>>>>>> which<br>>>>>> ones are grey?<br>>>>>> 6. The grey symbols are symbols not used in writing ASL signs in the<br>>>>>> ASL<br>>>>>> dictionary puddle.<br>>>>>> 7. The numbers under the symbols shows how many times that symbol was<br>>>>>> used<br>>>>>> to write signs in this database�<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> See attached -<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>> -------<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 10:38 PM, Charles Butler wrote:<br>>>>>><br>>>>>>> The fastest way to do that is to look at
"symbol frequency" in any<br>>>>>>> of<br>>>>>>> the SignPuddles. This would give you the current research on the<br>>>>>>> minimal<br>>>>>>> pairs of a language. For example, one of the earlier publications of<br>>>>>>> LIBRAS had determined a certain number of handshapes (around 96),<br>>>>>>> then<br>>>>>>> people began putting in the variants from Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro,<br>>>>>>> and<br>>>>>>> Rio Grande de Sul and the number expanded. Each day we've gotten a<br>>>>>>> few<br>>>>>>> more handshapes. When I was there in 2000, there were two<br>>>>>>> handshapes,<br>>>>>>> for example, using the ring finger and the thumb in contact, "droga"<br>>>>>>> and<br>>>>>>> "noiva",
which<br>> depend on where the thumb is placed.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Charles Butler<br>>>>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br>>>>>>> 240-764-5748<br>>>>>>> Clear writing moves business forward.<br>>>>>>> From: MARIA GALEA <<a ymailto="mailto:maria.azzopardi@UM.EDU.MT" href="mailto:maria.azzopardi@UM.EDU.MT">maria.azzopardi@UM.EDU.MT</a>><br>>>>>>> To: <a ymailto="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:34 PM<br>>>>>>> Subject: An alphabet for a specific sign language from the ISWA 2010<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Dear
all,<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Me again with one more question..<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Has anyone out<br>> there studied the alphabet of his/her sign language-<br>>>>>>> that<br>>>>>>> is has anyone derived a smaller amount of symbols from the ISWA<br>>>>>>> 2010,<br>>>>>>> as<br>>>>>>> the significant symbols (an alphabet) for writing a specific<br>>>>>>> language<br>>>>>>> e.g.<br>>>>>>> ASL, BSL, Norwegian Sign Language, German sign language etc?<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> If you know of any such work could you direct me to it please.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> If you have carried it out would love to include and refer to your<br>>>>>>>
work<br>>>>>>> in<br>>>>>>> my dissertation.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Once again I truly appreciate ANY feedback whatsoever,<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Thanks<br>>>>>>> Maria<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>> -----<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Val ;-)<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Valerie Sutton<br>>>>>> SignWriting List moderator<br>>>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br>>>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu"
href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br>>>>>> <a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" target="_blank">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting<br>>>>>> Read & Write Sign Languages<br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.SignWriting.org/" target="_blank">http://www.SignWriting.org</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignPuddle Online<br>>>>>>
Write SignWriting in the Clouds!<br>>>>>> Documents, Dictionaries, SignMail<br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle" target="_blank">http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting Wiki<br>>>>>> Wiki-style Articles in Sign Languages<br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.signbank.org/wiki" target="_blank">http://www.signbank.org/wiki</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting List<br>>>>>> Technical Support: Ask questions...<br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank">http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting Literature Project<br>>>>>> Writing Literature in Sign Languages<br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.SignWriting.org/literature"
target="_blank">http://www.SignWriting.org/literature</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting Encyclopedia Projects<br>>>>>> Writing Encyclopedias in Sign Languages<br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.SignWriting.org/encyclopedia" target="_blank">http://www.SignWriting.org/encyclopedia</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting Sponsors Forum<br>>>>>> Help Educational Non-Profit Organization<br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/sponsors" target="_blank">http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/sponsors</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting Shop<br>>>>>> Books, DVDs, Lessons, Services<br>>>>>> <a href="http://www.SignWriting.org/shop" target="_blank">http://www.SignWriting.org/shop</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Deaf Action Committee For SignWriting<br>>>>>>
Center For Sutton Movement Writing<br>>>>>> a US educational nonprofit organization<br>>>>>> PO Box 517, La Jolla, CA, 92038, USA<br>>>>>> Tel: 858-456-0098 Skype: valeriesutton<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting on Twitter<br>>>>>> <a href="http://twitter.com/signwriting" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/signwriting</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting on YouTube<br>>>>>> <a href="http://youtube.com/signwriting" target="_blank">http://youtube.com/signwriting</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> SignWriting on Facebook<br>>>>>> <a href="http://facebook.com/SignWriting" target="_blank">http://facebook.com/SignWriting</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>><br>><br>>
--<br>> Claudia S. Bianchini<br>> PhD Student @ Univ. Paris8 + CNRS-UMR7023-SFL<br>> PhD Student @ Univ. Studi di Perugia + CNR-ISTC-SLDS<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:chiadu14@tiscali.it" href="mailto:chiadu14@tiscali.it">chiadu14@tiscali.it</a><br><br><br><br> </div> </div> </div></body></html>