<html><head><base href="x-msg://159/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">SignWriting List<div>October 3, 2012</div><div><br></div><div>I agree with Stefan, Ingvild - It is really nice to read messages from you again...</div><div><br></div><div>It seems like a long time since we have heard from you - Thank you for your messages -</div><div><br></div><div>I hope you are well and enjoying your life in Norway...</div><div><br></div><div>Val ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>-----</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Oct 2, 2012, at 8:27 AM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="DE" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="Section1" style="page: Section1; "><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Hi Ingvild,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">so nice to read a message from you! I agree with what you say. In addition to that – of course you need some kind of special software to allow yourself to watch the video sometimes frame by frame!<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Hope you are doing fine!<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">All best<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Stefan<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1"></span></font></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Im Auftrag von<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Ingvild Roald<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Gesendet:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Dienstag, 2. Oktober 2012 12:09<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">An:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Betreff:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: annotation in receptive rather than expressive view point</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; ">As I see it, the easier way to convert from receptive to expressive for writing, is to view the video and copy the sign you see by doing it yourself. Then you write what you do, the sign as you are making it from viewing the video. That is, do the translation /transistion manually rather than 'in your head'.<br><br>All the best,<br><br>Ingvild<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; ">> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:02:50 +0200<br>> From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:oscar.koller@GMAIL.COM" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">oscar.koller@GMAIL.COM</a><br>> Subject: annotation in receptive rather than expressive view point<br>> To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Hi Charles,<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> thanks for your answer.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > Oscar, as you have an assistant annotating video tapes, trying to<br>> > translate in your head to an expressive point of view may be driving<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > you crazy.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Yes, I have been thinking about that too. And it would be preferable to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> do annotation from the receptive view point. However, I need the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> transcriptions in an expressive view point in order to match all the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> other entries in SignPuddle (as I use them to initialise my system). The<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> manual annotations are intended to serve as evaluation of the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> initialized system, thus they need to match.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> If there was an automatic (mathematical) way of converting receptive<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> into expressive view points, then we could do the "easier" annotation.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> But I learnt from Steve Slevinski, that this has not been implemented<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> and to me it doesn't seem trivial to implement it.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Or does anybody think differently?<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Regards, Oscar.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Am 28.09.2012 13:51, schrieb Charles Butler:<br>> > Oscar, as you have an assistant annotating video tapes, trying to<br>> > translate in your head to an expressive point of view may be driving you<br>> > crazy. One project in Belo Horizonte is using receptive SignWriting<br>> > specifically when annotating video tapes so that you see parallel<br>> > movements, not mirror movements when you look at them side by side. You<br>> > write what you see on the videotape, not reverse it to your own hands.<br>> ><br>> > What this means is that the videotaped person's left hand is on your<br>> > right, and the videotaped person's right hand is on your left. You have<br>> > to remember that you are writing another person's hands, not your own,<br>> > so when you look in a dictionary like Delegs or any of the current<br>> > SignPuddles, you will not find what you see on a videotape, but its<br>> > expressive equivalent.<br>> > Charles Butler<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br>> > 240-764-5748<br>> > Clear writing moves business forward.<br>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > *From:* Charles Butler <<a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@YAHOO.COM" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">chazzer3332000@YAHOO.COM</a>><br>> > *To:*<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>> > *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2012 7:29 AM<br>> > *Subject:* Re: help with signwriting<br>> ><br>> > Oscar,<br>> ><br>> > Reply, in the first sign, you are using a "both hands" arrow when the<br>> > hands are moving separately. If you are bringing the hands back toward<br>> > yourself, you need two arrows toward yourself, put them next to each<br>> > hand rather than in the middle. This is a common mistake as I'd be able<br>> > to read it, but the hands are not moving in a common path. This is a<br>> > common mistake, a single arrow is only used when both hands are actually<br>> > together.<br>> ><br>> > In the second sign, your left hand is pointed downward, but you are<br>> > using a right hand arrow moving twice. Use a left hand arrow or a right<br>> > hand, not a mix. You could move your right hand in this fashion, but<br>> > your hand would be twisted outward rather awkwardly, unlikely that this<br>> > is what you mean.<br>> > Charles Butler<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br>> > 240-764-5748<br>> > Clear writing moves business forward.<br>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > *From:* Oscar Koller <<a href="mailto:oscar.koller@GMAIL.COM" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">oscar.koller@GMAIL.COM</a>><br>> > *To:*<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>> > *Sent:* Friday, September 28, 2012 6:06 AM<br>> > *Subject:* help with signwriting<br>> ><br>> > Hello everybody,<br>> ><br>> > I added following appended 4 entries to the German Sign Puddle. The<br>> > editors noted in each case that the writing is not correct. Could<br>> > anybody explain to me, what should be changed?<br>> ><br>> > Thanks<br>> > Oscar.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>><o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>