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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Charles, Valerie and
sw-list members, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Perhaps this sign can
explain better what is on my mind - the two hands move inwards –
startposition U-hand a little bit curved – in the endposition the two
fingers are really bent as much as possible – <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I know and I understand
that the symbol with the </span></font><span lang=EN-GB>bent square fingers has
been accepted and is established in order to indicate this clearly. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Our Font- design team would love to write this instead
with the curved lines as you can see on the left... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Would this be correct? Is there inany way a kind of
violation of principles? Is this a matter of artwork? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><img width=163 height=75 id="_x0000_i1036"
src="cid:image004.gif@01CE0A4B.DAF9EC00"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All best Stefan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
SignWriting List: Read and Write Sig</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>n Languages
[mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Im
Auftrag von </span></b>Stefan Wöhrmann<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b> Donnerstag, 14. Februar
2013 00:24<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b> SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b> AW: discussion: design of
bent fingers</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Charles, Valerie... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>please let me explain
again – I am not discussing different signs. I am not discussing
that it is possible to bent the fingers just a little bit or extremely. I would
like to discuss <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>the possibility to write
the bent index as a bent sqare finger or as a half –circle
curve. See the sign below. Looking at the left or right hand there should
not be any difference – well perhaps except for the “feeling”
– smile <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><img width=181 height=96
id="_x0000_i1031" src="cid:image005.gif@01CE0A4B.DAF9EC00"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If you bent your fingers
– you can write this as </span></font><span lang=EN-GB>bent square
fingers. (We find this for handshapes with one, two or three
fingers) We do not find this for 4 or 5 fingers – <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Why? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Well the fingers bent the same way but the design of
that given handshape shows smooth lines instead of “bent square
fingers” <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Is this because of a design – problem with old
software or is there an idea behind this concept. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I fully agree with your last statement
“ "beautiful" artwork must make sure that you
don't lose articulation. “ That is the reason that I ask for
your opinion smile! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Valerie – what
do you think ? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All best<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stefan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
SignWriting List: Read and Writ</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>e Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Im
Auftrag von </span></b>Charles Butler<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b> Mittwoch, 13. Februar
2013 23:12<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b>
SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b> Re: discussion: design of
bent fingers</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>For me there is an essential difference between a bent
finger and a smoothed finger when you miss the point that two joints are
bent, like the difference between "depend" where the joints
smoothly go into a curve, and "friend" where they clearly link as
bent square fingers. <img width=32 height=32 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/glyphogram.php?text=AS10a11S10a19S20600M24x20S10a11n4xn6S10a19n23xn6S20600n11xn20&pad=10&name=McDonald-%27s">(McDonald's
two CURVES) or <img width=32 height=32 id="_x0000_i1026"
src="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/glyphogram.php?ksw=M64x23S10a113xn3S10a19n30xn3S2660634x3S26612n64x3S218005xn15S21800n22xn15S2fb00n8xn24">(etc.)
and something with clearly the first and second joints clearly squared. <br>
<br>
<img width=32 height=32 id="_x0000_i1027"
src="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/glyphogram.php?text=AS10611S20500S36d00S22f03S10612S10616S20800S2f900M57x44S36d00n21xn37S2050023xn43S1061134xn43S22f0316xn22S10616n15x2S106123x12S2f900n6x39S20800n5x26&pad=10&name=Mexican">This
is the sign for Mexican from a sarape (a blanket used as a wrap). It would
not be correct to make the sign without an actual hooked finger as a
"minimal pair", so, for me, "beautiful" artwork must make
sure that you don't lose articulation. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Charles Butler<br>
chazzer3332000@yahoo.com<br>
240-764-5748<br>
Clear writing moves business forward.<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Wed, 2/13/13, Stefan Wöhrmann <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM><br>
Subject: discussion: design of bent fingers<br>
To: SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv1879429122>
<div>
<div>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi Valerie and sw-friends, </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I would like to ask for your
comments about the following issue.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Within our delegs-projekt a group
of specialized design-students have a second look at the various SW-symbols. From
their point of view there are options to “improve” the design of
some symbols in order to make the whole SW-symbol-font look more
“modern” or “nice”</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>While preparing some studies of
the ongoing process they showed up with the question whether the bent index
can be written with smooth curves as well showing the index finger bent as
you designed it as a finger with sharp edges. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><img width=162 height=75
id="yiv1879429122_x005f_x005f_x005f_x0000_i1027"
src="cid:image006.gif@01CE0A4B.DAF9EC00"></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I played around with the signmaker
to create a little demo of what I am talking about. ;-)) </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Interesting question – so I
looked carefully at the Symbolset and discovered that the “claw
hand” is designed exactly this way (rounded lines for the
fingers) </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>On the other hand the hands with
only one, two or at least three fingers show this other design with sharp 90°
angles. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can you tell us: Is this a matter
of history? Coming from the old “DOS-SW-Software – we could not
write nice circles either. You know this “old symbol” just
indicating that you are supposed to see a circle-movement shown as some dots
in a circle. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What about this difference between
a clawhand with curves or the same hand written with edges? </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><img width=206 height=98
id="yiv1879429122_x005f_x005f_x005f_x0000_i1028"
src="cid:image007.gif@01CE0A4B.DAF9EC00"></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Is there any meaningful difference
in the background that you would want us to know? Or is this a
matter of artwork? ... or something else? </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Would it be any difference if we
would write all these bent fingers with soft rounded lines? </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thank you very much for your
attention. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>All best </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Stefan </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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