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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Valerie, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>thank you so much for
your interesting and well explained comment. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am so sorry to disturb
anybody with my graphic I simply created with the options I can take out of the
signpuddle signmaker. I have to realize that you concentrate on my mistake to
create a graphic that looks like as if some fingers look taller or longer ... or
as if there is more or less space...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Perhaps an example – just
handwriting – would sgow much better what is on my mind to ask this question,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Excuse – the length of
the fingers or the space between the fingers is not the point and perhaps the
design-experts would be able to present perfectly polished well measured
fingers... ;-) ... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What I try to figure out
is just the issue – whether there is a basic difference between this or that
writing (design) of the bent fingers ( curves or square) strokes. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Personally I prefer the
status as it is and personally I feel much more comfortabel to “read” the bent
finger with square ...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>But since we discuss this
in our group I thought it might be a good idea to discuss this on a higher
level. That is the reason to poste this question here. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Perhaps Jo or Jörn from
the delegs-team can motivate people from the design – team to show some of
their suggestions or options how they would prefer to write these hand shapes
with bent finger in a much better style compared to what I created with
signmaker .... smile! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks a again for your
kind and supportive comment. Between the lines anybody can understand that you
try to support anybody who is eager to put engergy into any project related to
your ingenious invention. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All best Stefan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> SignWriting
List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>Im Auftrag von </span></b>Valerie Sutton<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b> Donnerstag, 14. Februar
2013 05:46<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b>
SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b> Re: discussion: design of
bent fingers</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>SignWriting List<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>February 13, 2013<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi Stefan -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>What do I think? Thanks for asking ;-) Actually I am not sure what I
think - ha! This is not something I can just answer yes or no to…It would take
me some time to study the old hand symbols from years ago, and our current ISWA
2010 to see what was and what is now…but no matter what, if your team makes the
change, it changes the ISWA 2010 for several reasons…first the fingers in the
new handshape are higher than the fingers in the current ISWA 2010 hand
symbol…so just that alone would make it hard to replace one with the other in
the middle of signs already written - you know how we place fingers very
carefully, for example on the face, and if the fingers suddenly are taller or
longer, then the replacement would be a problem and the signs would have to be re-written
- so be careful that any changes you make are not different in size.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Also, there is more space between the two fingers in the new symbol,
which is not really correct - The idea behind the original symbol is that the
two fingers are close to each other like a bent U, but they do not look close
to each other in the new symbol - although maybe you can improve that ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I do not understand exactly what you are doing with Font Design - We
have font development going on here too, related to the SVG we already have,
and we are working with a form of TrueType to place the ISWA 2010 into TrueType
- meanwhile - I think your work is wonderful with so many new software
developments so it is all good - It is just a matter of knowing what the goal
is…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Here is the way I look at it…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Think of the current ISWA 2010 as the "current alphabet"… A
Font Design of A, B, C can have a slightly different look to it, but it cannot
be so hard to read that you can no longer read the words…and the newly designed
fonts have to have symbols that fit inside the spacing of the current words
already written -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Regarding the idea of curved or bent…there is a slight difference in
performance of the handshape, but it is such a slight difference that most
people would not be able to actually physically perform the difference, but
there is a feeling to it perhaps when reading it - I am not sure about that
though - just a thought -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>So I have to leave this to you - maybe you can show us more later and
it will become clearer for all of us - I appreciate it very much that you asked
us -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>And keep us informed on the List about all you are doing -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Please send my best to your team -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Val ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>---------<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Feb 13, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann <<a
href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de">stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue style='orphans: 2;text-align:-webkit-auto;widows: 2;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:
0px'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Charles, Valerie and
sw-list members,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Perhaps this sign can
explain better what is on my mind - the two hands move inwards –
startposition U-hand a little bit curved – in the endposition the two fingers
are really bent as much as possible –<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I know and I understand
that the symbol with the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></font><span
lang=EN-GB>bent square fingers has been accepted and is established in order to
indicate this clearly.<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Our Font- design team would love to write this instead
with the curved lines as you can see on the left...<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Would this be correct? Is there inany way
a kind of violation of principles? Is this a matter of artwork?<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><img border=0 width=163 height=75 id="_x0000_i1036"
src="cid:image001.gif@01CE0B1B.3C56FF40" apple-width=yes apple-height=yes></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All best Stefan<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font></span><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>SignWriting
List: Read and Write Sig</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>n Languages [mailto:SW-<a
href="mailto:L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Im
Auftrag von<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></b>Stefan
Wöhrmann<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2013 00:24<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>AW: discussion: design of bent fingers</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<u1:p></u1:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Charles, Valerie...<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>please let me explain
again – I am not discussing different signs. I am not discussing that it
is possible to bent the fingers just a little bit or extremely. I would like to
discuss<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>the possibility to write
the bent index as a bent sqare finger or as a half –circle curve.
See the sign below. Looking at the left or right hand there should not be any
difference – well perhaps except for the “feeling” – smile<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><img border=0 width=181
height=96 id="_x0000_i1031" src="cid:image002.gif@01CE0B1B.3C56FF40"
apple-width=yes apple-height=yes></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If you bent your fingers
– you can write this as<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></font><span
lang=EN-GB>bent square fingers. (We find this for handshapes with
one, two or three fingers) We do not find this for 4 or 5 fingers –<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Why?<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Well the fingers bent the same way but the design of
that given handshape shows smooth lines instead of “bent square fingers”<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Is this because of a design – problem with old
software or is there an idea behind this concept.<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I fully agree with your last statement
“ "beautiful" artwork must make sure that you don't
lose articulation. “ That is the reason that I ask for your opinion
smile!<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Valerie – what do you
think ?<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All best<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stefan<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font></span><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>SignWriting
List: Read and Writ</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>e Sign Languages [mailto:SW-<a
href="mailto:L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Im
Auftrag von<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></b>Charles
Butler<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2013 23:12<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: discussion: design of bent fingers</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<u1:p></u1:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>For me there is an essential difference between a
bent finger and a smoothed finger when you miss the point that two joints are
bent, like the difference between "depend" where the joints
smoothly go into a curve, and "friend" where they clearly link as
bent square fingers.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><img
border=0 width=32 height=32 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/glyphogram.php?text=AS10a11S10a19S20600M24x20S10a11n4xn6S10a19n23xn6S20600n11xn20&pad=10&name=McDonald-%27s">(McDonald's
two CURVES) or<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><img border=0
width=32 height=32 id="_x0000_i1026"
src="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/glyphogram.php?ksw=M64x23S10a113xn3S10a19n30xn3S2660634x3S26612n64x3S218005xn15S21800n22xn15S2fb00n8xn24">(etc.)
and something with clearly the first and second joints clearly squared.<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<br>
<img border=0 width=32 height=32 id="_x0000_i1027"
src="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/glyphogram.php?text=AS10611S20500S36d00S22f03S10612S10616S20800S2f900M57x44S36d00n21xn37S2050023xn43S1061134xn43S22f0316xn22S10616n15x2S106123x12S2f900n6x39S20800n5x26&pad=10&name=Mexican">This
is the sign for Mexican from a sarape (a blanket used as a wrap). It would
not be correct to make the sign without an actual hooked finger as a
"minimal pair", so, for me, "beautiful" artwork must make
sure that you don't lose articulation.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Charles Butler<br>
<a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br>
240-764-5748<br>
Clear writing moves business forward.<br>
<br>
--- On<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>Wed, 2/13/13, Stefan Wöhrmann<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><i><span style='font-style:italic'><<a
href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM">stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM</a>></span></i></span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>wrote:<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Stefan Wöhrmann <<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM">stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM</a>><br>
Subject: discussion: design of bent fingers<br>
To:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 PM<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv1879429122>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi Valerie and sw-friends,</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I would like to ask for your
comments about the following issue.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Within our delegs-projekt a group
of specialized design-students have a second look at the various SW-symbols.
From their point of view there are options to “improve” the design of some
symbols in order to make the whole SW-symbol-font look more “modern” or “nice”</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>While preparing some studies of
the ongoing process they showed up with the question whether the bent index
can be written with smooth curves as well showing the index finger bent as
you designed it as a finger with sharp edges.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><img border=0 width=162 height=75
id="yiv1879429122_x005f_x005f_x005f_x005f_x005f_x005f_x005f_x0000_i1027"
src="cid:image003.gif@01CE0B1B.3C56FF40" apple-width=yes apple-height=yes></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I played around with the signmaker
to create a little demo of what I am talking about. ;-))</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Interesting question – so I looked
carefully at the Symbolset and discovered that the “claw hand” is
designed exactly this way (rounded lines for the fingers)</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>On the other hand the hands with
only one, two or at least three fingers show this other design with sharp 90°
angles.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can you tell us: Is this a matter
of history? Coming from the old “DOS-SW-Software – we could not write nice
circles either. You know this “old symbol” just indicating that you are
supposed to see a circle-movement shown as some dots in a circle.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What about this difference between
a clawhand with curves or the same hand written with edges?</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><img border=0 width=206 height=98
id="yiv1879429122_x005f_x005f_x005f_x005f_x005f_x005f_x005f_x0000_i1028"
src="cid:image004.gif@01CE0B1B.3C56FF40" apple-width=yes apple-height=yes></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Is there any meaningful difference
in the background that you would want us to know? Or is this a
matter of artwork? ... or something else?</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Would it be any difference if we
would write all these bent fingers with soft rounded lines?</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thank you very much for your
attention.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>All best</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Stefan</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1879429122msonormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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