<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><base href="x-msg://258/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">SignWriting List<div>March 29, 2013</div><div><br></div><div>Hi Stefan and everyone -</div><div><br></div><div>Yes, these discussions are a lot of fun and are very useful too, because it shows that the SignWriting system can write the very detailed version, or the more simplified version - and writers can choose the style of writing they prefer because all choices are available to them -</div><div><br></div><div>That was my goal - feels good to see it in practice ….</div><div><br></div><div>I like your cartoon, Stefan - the person is performing it one way, but thinking in the simplified writing - very good!!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><img height="162" width="145" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" id="17a1dd46-08c0-47c1-acdd-9ff86477390a" src="cid:03134F13-D46A-4BB0-A699-6E9917FF9E10"></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Val ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>------</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Mar 29, 2013, at 2:19 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann <<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE">stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="DE" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="Section1" style="page: Section1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Big smile –<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Ha he is performing the sign exactly as I thought – almost hitting the back of the right hand index hinged on the left palm – left lower arm almost horizontally oriented - this is amazing. On the other hand looking at thousands of signing variations all kinds of I seem to develop some kind of feeling what would become kind of adaptation to relaxed signing within context instead of clear and distinct “detailed signing”<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">It is just for fun and to spend some thoughts about the ability of signwriting to show minimal changes very clearly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">...<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><span class="hps"><span lang="EN">I feel happy</span></span><span lang="EN"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="hps">that my first</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="hps">hypothesis was confirmed</span>.</span><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "></span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">If it comes down to write an easy to understand spelling ...<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><span class="hps"><span lang="EN">So you have to</span></span><span class="shorttext"><span lang="EN"> </span></span><span class="hps"><span lang="EN">make compromises.</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And of course there are several options. ;-))<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; ">We do have a symbol for this hand shape index hinged – but it is no so intuitive compared to the index- hand – especially if we write it seen from top down.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; ">So in the end – for the sake of an easy to perform handwriting the introduced reader should be happy with the spelling Adam suggested before.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "><img width="145" height="162" id="_x0000_i1034" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:image001.gif@01CE2CCB.768C4310"><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; ">I loved to discuss your spelling – thanks for your contribution.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; ">L.I.F.E. ... greetings to Tini<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Stefan<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1"></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-<a href="mailto:L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>]<b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Im Auftrag von<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Gesendet:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Freitag, 29. März 2013 20:48<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">An:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Betreff:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Erika's SignWriting..</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">OK, took the chance, even though I'm supposed to be doing something else on a tight deadline ;)<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Stefan you're right: I see it performed both ways!<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>For example, to see if performed like Stefan says, at 1:04 in the following video (this isn't from my data, this is some publicly circulated video someone else took and posted to you tube):<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSpc3ZgP1wo" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSpc3ZgP1wo</a><br>So now I need to figure out how to write it with the back of the right hand resting in the left palm with the index finger sticking up!<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway <<a href="mailto:erhoffma@oberlin.edu" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">erhoffma@oberlin.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Stefan, when I get the time I will look in my video data corpus to see if I can find instances of signers performing the sign as you suggest they might. (love the images you included!!!)<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann <<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div link="blue" vlink="blue"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Hi Maria, Erika,Adam, Valerie...</span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">The reason that I feel uncomfortable with the spelling of this sign is just as Erika explains:</span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">“Maybe it's because the wrist of the right hand has to flex so much to allow the hand to rest in the palm of the left? “</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">That`s it and it is independent of DGS – smile.</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Reading your sign my brain suggests to experiment with one of these variations:</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Left hand indicating the ground, right hand indicating the tower (Dharahara) -</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "><img border="0" width="63" height="53" id="_x0000_i1025" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:image002.gif@01CE2CCB.768C4310"></span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">(I would feel much more comfortable with the left hand palm down ( but that is not the point. It is not up to me to discuss signs but only to discuss spelling – I know smile!)</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "><img border="0" width="67" height="53" id="_x0000_i1026" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:image003.gif@01CE2CCB.768C4310"></span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "><img border="0" width="63" height="54" id="_x0000_i1027" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:image004.gif@01CE2CCB.768C4310"></span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Well if you write a “rest” one hand upon another I expect that I can perform that. In this case you cannot unless you rest the lower arm on the palm of the left hand holding the right hand at 90°.</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">(That hurts)</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "><img border="0" width="145" height="158" id="_x0000_i1028" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:image005.gif@01CE2CCB.768C4310"></span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">What we do in these cases is what Adam explained: We simply accept and tell our brain to interpret this spelling if it shows up another time to be interpreted as what you see on Erikas foto.</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">I myself love to discuss spelling and to ask myself wether this or that spelling should be chosen.</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Sometimes I have my doubts immediately – for example when reading the first attempt of Claudia to write Paris – wow next message she shows up to change handorientation – well done!! Another example is the spelling of Sao Paulo palm facing the signer...</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "><img border="0" width="63" height="46" id="_x0000_i1029" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:image007.gif@01CE2CCB.768C4310"></span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">In this case of Kathmandu – Adam is right – it hurts if I try to sign it with this extreme bend and I would be eager to videotape 10 signers in Kathmandu – how many of them would rest the back of the right hand on the palm of the left hand – but just bending the index up – or something like this in between the two spellings ;-)</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">So to anwer your question Maria – in my first contact with Erikas spelling I wanted the right hand with index straight upward... and that is impossible.</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Thanks Maria for your question.</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Stefan</span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span><o:p></o:p></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>]<b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Im Auftrag von<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Gesendet:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Freitag, 29. März 2013 18:25<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">An:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Betreff:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Erika's SignWriting..</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Stefan - would that have helped?<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Happy Easter to you too Maria! I was actually just eating a Cadbury Cream Egg while reading your message...<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 1:13 PM, MARIA GALEA <<a href="mailto:maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Yes that could be it..perhaps if the B-Hand hand is written diagonally it<br>might read more 'smoothly'? see attached.<br><br>oh and before I go a BIG HAPPY EASTER Erika and EVERYONE else on the<br>List..enjoy your Easter Eggs and naturally your loved ones.<br><font color="#888888"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136); ">maria</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><br><br><br>> Maybe it's because the wrist of the right hand has to flex so much to<br>> allow<br>> the hand to rest in the palm of the left? Maybe that extreme bend is not<br>> as<br>> phonologically common in, say, DGS?<br>><br>><br>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:51 PM, MARIA GALEA<br>> <<a href="mailto:maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">maria.azzopardi@um.edu.mt</a>>wrote:<br>><br>>> Stefan,<br>>> I could read Erika's writing perfectly, without the photo. I don't<br>>> understand why you claimed that the SignWriting couldn't be performed.<br>>> Maria<br>>><br>>><br>>> > Here's a photo of the sign. How would you suggest I write it. Scribing<br>>> has<br>>> > never been my strong suit :)<br>>> ><br>>> > On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Stefan W�hrmann <<br>>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de</a>> wrote:<br>>> ><br>>> >> Hi Erika, ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ** **<br>>> >><br>>> >> well I cannot perform that ;-( although I have an idea what you want<br>>> to<br>>> >> show � but right hand up there is the horizontal line of hand and<br>>> lower<br>>> >> arm - nothing that can be rest on the left palm ???****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ** **<br>>> >><br>>> >> Stefan****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ** **<br>>> >> ------------------------------<br>>> >><br>>> >> *Von:* SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:<br>>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>] *Im Auftrag von *Erika<br>>> >> Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>>> >> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 28. M�rz 2013 18:07<br>>> >><br>>> >> *An:*<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>>> >> *Betreff:* Re: Signs for Cities and States - can you write the name<br>>> of<br>>> >> YOUR city and post to the List?<br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ** **<br>>> >><br>>> >> Yes, the right hand comes to rest on top of the palm of the left.<br>>> Maybe<br>>> >> I<br>>> >> should just have shown them already in contact?****<br>>> >><br>>> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Stefan W�hrmann <<br>>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de</a>> wrote:****<br>>> >><br>>> >> Hi Erika, ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> can you explain Kathmandu: ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> left flat hand palm up fingers to the right ( no problem)****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> right hand Index � Hand � palm facing the signer moving down - mh<br>>> �<br>>> >> how to get the touch between the two hands � right hand on top of<br>>> the<br>>> >> left<br>>> >> hand ?? ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> Stefan ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >> ------------------------------<br>>> >><br>>> >> *Von:* SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:<br>>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>] *Im Auftrag von *Erika<br>>> >> Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>>> >> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 28. M�rz 2013 17:18****<br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >> *An:*<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>>> >> *Betreff:* Re: Signs for Cities and States - can you write the name<br>>> of<br>>> >> YOUR city and post to the List?****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> I don't know ASL, so I don't know a sign for Detroit, Ann Arbor, or<br>>> >> Oberlin (my US places).****<br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >> So I'm posting the sign for Kathmandu, the city where I learned to<br>>> sign!<br>>> >> *<br>>> >> ***<br>>> >><br>>> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Adam Frost <<a href="mailto:icemandeaf@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">icemandeaf@gmail.com</a>><br>>> >> wrote:<br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> I am a West Coaster, and I must admit that people get East Coast city<br>>> >> signs mixed up along with our own city signs. But this is how I<br>>> >> personally<br>>> >> sign the 4 commonly confused "B" cities, since I am very picky and<br>>> have<br>>> >> been known to correct people at times. ;-) It seems to match what you<br>>> >> sign,<br>>> >> Kim.****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> Boston, Massachusetts****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> Baltimore, Massachusetts****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> Berkeley, California****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> Burbank, California****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> Adam****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> On Mar 28, 2013, at 8:23 AM, Kimberley Shaw wrote:****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ** **<br>>> >><br>>> >> Hi everyone:<br>>> >> those of us in Boston, Massachusetts sign it thus:<br>>> >> ****<br>>> >> ------------------------------<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> and refer to Berkeley, CA thus:<br>>> >><br>>> >> But some of my signing friends tell me that when you're on the West<br>>> >> Coast,<br>>> >> it's the other way around!<br>>> >> Best,<br>>> >> Kim from Boston****<br>>> >><br>>> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Valerie Sutton<br>>> <<a href="mailto:signwriting@mac.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">signwriting@mac.com</a>><br>>> >> wrote:****<br>>> >><br>>> >> SignWriting List****<br>>> >><br>>> >> March 28, 2013****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> NAMES OF CITIES and STATES Around the World****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> Thank you, Ingvild, Charles and Stefan for your signs!****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> I would suggest that you add your signs to the International Sign<br>>> >> Dictionary online:****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> SignPuddle for International Signs Dictionary****<br>>> >><br>>> >><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/index.php?ui=1&sgn=35****" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/index.php?ui=1&sgn=35****</a><br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> I just copied mine for La Jolla, California from the ASL Dictionary<br>>> to<br>>> >> the<br>>> >> International Dictionary, and I hope you can do the same for your<br>>> signs<br>>> >> too�<br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> And I hope more names of cities, states, countries and other<br>>> >> international<br>>> >> signs can be added too�****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> Here is what we have so far�and I really like all four spellings!<br>>> Thanks<br>>> >> to you all�****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> Val ;-)****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >> ****<br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >> --<br>>> >> Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>>> >> Assistant Professor of Anthropology<br>>> >> Oberlin College ****<br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >> --<br>>> >> Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>>> >> Assistant Professor of Anthropology<br>>> >> Oberlin College ****<br>>> >><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>>> > Assistant Professor of Anthropology<br>>> > Oberlin College<br>>> ><br>>><br>>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>> Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>> Assistant Professor of Anthropology<br>> Oberlin College<br>><o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><br><br clear="all"><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>Assistant Professor of Anthropology<br>Oberlin College<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><br><br clear="all"><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>Assistant Professor of Anthropology<br>Oberlin College<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><br><br clear="all"><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>Assistant Professor of Anthropology<br>Oberlin College<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><img name="Kathmandu_2.png" id="369632e4-90f7-4a88-9d84-d591593fa6a1" height="162" width="145" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:659F4563-F9E9-4F58-885F-0825B9759AB2"></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>