<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"><base href="x-msg://24/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">SignWriting List<div>April 13, 2013</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for this message Stefan - yes I can imagine you tried everything - including writing just the symbols for the mouth without any head circles…this looks very funny, doesn't it?!! I just tried it and got a good giggle:</div><div><br></div><div><img height="50" width="115" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" id="a2c5cccd-f69c-4836-8585-cae7b3db5ef8" src="cid:15CC96DC-FFA2-43E1-A19C-2F2EF19A6922"></div><div><br></div><div>but actually - reading is a funny thing - after looking at it a little while I started to get used to it - it is charming in a way too -</div><div><br></div><div>how you choose to write is fine and I am enjoying seeing all the possibilities -</div><div><br></div><div>Val ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>-------</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Apr 13, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann <<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE">stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="DE" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div class="Section1" style="page: Section1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Hello sw-friends,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">well – hm –I follow this discussion with interest.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">It is as Valerie mentioned several times before. Feel free to write what you want to. ...<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">If you take a look at the German SignPuddle you will understand that German SignLanguage (DGS) is different from ASL. The information coming from the mouth is very important. That is the reason that I defined the meaning of several “mouthgesture –symbols” And as you may know Fernando in Brazil writes these symbols the same way.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">I prefer to write the headcircles from left to write – no matter what the direcetion of writing is (top down or horizontally) –<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">I experimented myself a lot with different kinds of Mundbildern. I even tried out mouthsymbols without any headcircles !!!! In the end I feel most comfortable with overlapping headcircles and one Mundbild within one headcircle. <o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Just my two cents,<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Stefan</span></font><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1"></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-<a href="mailto:L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Im Auftrag von<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Adam Frost<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">G</span></b></span></font><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">esendet:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Samstag, 13. April 2013 23:30<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">An:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Betreff:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Writing Non Manual Signals</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">I agree that having the mouth symbols stacked on top of each other like that does see odd, but maybe that would be just fine enough for reading without taking up so much space to have multiple head circles. I think it is something worth experimenting with to see if it would work alright or not.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Adam<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">On Apr 13, 2013, at 1:44 PM, KJ Boal wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><span style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; widows: 2; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px; "><div link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hi everyone,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Having both mouth symbols in one head symbol is an interesting idea, but I personally didn’t care for it. The top mouth looked like a moustache to me. I did like the other two writings; but if I had to pick one it would be Adam’s, just because of the way he used the top-off head to stack the head symbols. Both ending mouths made sense to me.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Just my two cents,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">KJ<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></font><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; ">SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-<a href="mailto:L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Valerie Sutton<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, April 13, 2013 1:37 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Writing Non Manual Signals<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><u1:p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></u1:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; ">SignWriting List<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; ">April 13, 2013<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p></div><div><u1:p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></u1:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Hi Natasha and Adam and Stefan and all…<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p></div><div><u1:p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></u1:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; ">I like all the methods shown - and of course your work with Mouth Movements, Stefan is truly wonderful … <o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p></div><div><u1:p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></u1:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Regarding writing down in vertical columns, I agree that the feeling of the changing mouth movements feels like it should be written down, since the reading of the entire document is going down…and likewise, when reading a document from left to right, writing the changing facial expressions from left to right makes sense for the reading direction…<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p></div><div><u1:p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></u1:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; ">I like Natasha's writing of the sign for FINISH and Adam's too…it is true that when we use the Head symbol with the top off the top of the head, it gives us a way to place one face over the other in an interesting stack - to find that symbol, go to the Heads, and under the first group in Heads is a Head Symbol that does not have the top on, so we can stack more facial features into one Head symbol…Adam used that to superimpose one head on the other in his example below…<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p></div><div><u1:p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></u1:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; ">And all the Facial Expressions are listed on this page as Adam said:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p></div><div><u1:p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></u1:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "><a href="http://www.signbank.org/iswa/cat_4.html" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.signbank.org/iswa/cat_4.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p></div><div><u1:p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></u1:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> - just click on the Group name and it will list all the facial expression and head symbols with names and ID numbers...<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p></div><div><u1:p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></u1:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; ">Now, below I have placed an idea...this is only an experiment - I have never shared this with anyone before, but what about the idea of stacking mouth symbols within one head symbol? It may look ridiculous and I will not mind if you tell me so! (smile)…take a look at this idea attached…the Head Circle without the top on it, would be a requirement so we know we are stacking Facial features…we would know that those are two Mouth Positions stacked within one Head Circle, because the top of the Head circle is not there - this would only work for two positions or maybe three at the most -<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p></div><div><u1:p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></u1:p></div></div></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>